I give my estate to my children in equal shares

james.wardle

My father passed away earlier in the year and I have just received the grant of probate.
his will says "I give my estate to my children in equal shares"
my brother is disabled and would like to live in my father's house, my father also left shares approximately equal in value to the house
Would this wording in a will allow us to pass the house to my brother and the shares to me?     
or
Would we require a deed of variation to change the will? as we don't get half the house and half the shares each.
Thanks

Mojisola

james.wardle said:

My father passed away earlier in the year and I have just received the grant of probate.
his will says "I give my estate to my children in equal shares"
my brother is disabled and would like to live in my father's house, my father also left shares approximately equal in value to the house
Would this wording in a will allow us to pass the house to my brother and the shares to me?     
or
Would we require a deed of variation to change the will? as we don't get half the house and half the shares each.
Thanks

Yes to the bit in bold.

As long as you both end up with half of the value of the estate, you won't need a DOV.

You haven't each been left half of each individual thing your Dad owned, you've been left half of the total estate - how you divide it up is up to the two of you.

AnotherJoe

Mojisola said:

You haven't each been left half of each individual thing your Dad owned, you've been left half of the total estate - how you divide it up is up to the two of you.

^^^^^^^ this.

badger09

Were either you, or your brother, or both of you Executors of your late father's estate?

If I were the Executor in this case, I would want written confirmation from both beneficiaries that they were satisfied that their share of the Estate received in the form of either the house or the shares, was equal to half the distributable value of said estate.

Otherwise there could potentially be problems. For example, what if the shares are now worth say £40k less than at date of death. Would you be happy that your brother received £20k more than his 1/2 share?

I'm not suggesting this would be an issue between you and your brother, but you should both think about it.

Mickey666

Isn't that generally good advice for any executor of any will, ie that each beneficiary confirms in writing that they are satisfied and accept they've had their full and final settlement from the will?

badger09

Indeed, but even more important in a case like this.

james.wardle

badger09 said:

Were either you, or your brother, or both of you Executors of your late father's estate?

If I were the Executor in this case, I would want written confirmation from both beneficiaries that they were satisfied that their share of the Estate received in the form of either the house or the shares, was equal to half the distributable value of said estate.

Otherwise there could potentially be problems. For example, what if the shares are now worth say £40k less than at date of death. Would you be happy that your brother received £20k more than his 1/2 share?

I'm not suggesting this would be an issue between you and your brother, but you should both think about it.

Thanks for all the feedback everyone.    This is an interesting point.   Should we take the value of the estate on the date of death to assign the value we will distribute.  or the value on the day we do the distribution?  with the stock market crash because of COVID 19 the shares are worth a lot less today than they where in December?

AnotherJoe

james.wardle said:

badger09 said:

Were either you, or your brother, or both of you Executors of your late father's estate?

If I were the Executor in this case, I would want written confirmation from both beneficiaries that they were satisfied that their share of the Estate received in the form of either the house or the shares, was equal to half the distributable value of said estate.

Otherwise there could potentially be problems. For example, what if the shares are now worth say £40k less than at date of death. Would you be happy that your brother received £20k more than his 1/2 share?

I'm not suggesting this would be an issue between you and your brother, but you should both think about it.

Thanks for all the feedback everyone.    This is an interesting point.   Should we take the value of the estate on the date of death to assign the value we will distribute.  or the value on the day we do the distribution?  with the stock market crash because of COVID 19 the shares are worth a lot less today than they where in December?

And so, probably is the house, except there isn't a website you can go to that shows the price of the house fluctuating on a per second basis.

End of the day its up to the two of you to come to an amicable agreement. There is no signed document between you (yet)  that states that you will take the shares and he the house. And the will doesn't specify that. So you can decide what you both agree is fair.

So currently the situation is that there's a house worth an amount (you dont know what that is) and shares worth an amount (you can see that change by the second)

And you will need to agree how to amicably split that, which is difficult in an environment where even professional valuers dont really know what the price of a house is, and it coudl potentially fall by say 20% between now and end of the year. Or 5%. Or nothing at all.

Maybe (this is just an idea) you both agree (crucial, document it) to do something like, wait a couple months for the housing market to at least indicate whats happening, get 3 local EAs to value it then, in the meantime sell all the shares, and then "true up" based on the average of those valuations. In the meantime you arent also subject to the vagaries of share prices.

(In normal times I sugegst you get 3 EA valuations now but prices now and in 2 or 3 months time could be quite different.

badger09

james.wardle said:

badger09 said:

Were either you, or your brother, or both of you Executors of your late father's estate?

If I were the Executor in this case, I would want written confirmation from both beneficiaries that they were satisfied that their share of the Estate received in the form of either the house or the shares, was equal to half the distributable value of said estate.

Otherwise there could potentially be problems. For example, what if the shares are now worth say £40k less than at date of death. Would you be happy that your brother received £20k more than his 1/2 share?

I'm not suggesting this would be an issue between you and your brother, but you should both think about it.

Thanks for all the feedback everyone.    This is an interesting point.   Should we take the value of the estate on the date of death to assign the value we will distribute.  or the value on the day we do the distribution?  with the stock market crash because of COVID 19 the shares are worth a lot less today than they where in December?

AnotherJoe said:

james.wardle said:

badger09 said:

Were either you, or your brother, or both of you Executors of your late father's estate?

If I were the Executor in this case, I would want written confirmation from both beneficiaries that they were satisfied that their share of the Estate received in the form of either the house or the shares, was equal to half the distributable value of said estate.

Otherwise there could potentially be problems. For example, what if the shares are now worth say £40k less than at date of death. Would you be happy that your brother received £20k more than his 1/2 share?

I'm not suggesting this would be an issue between you and your brother, but you should both think about it.

Thanks for all the feedback everyone.    This is an interesting point.   Should we take the value of the estate on the date of death to assign the value we will distribute.  or the value on the day we do the distribution?  with the stock market crash because of COVID 19 the shares are worth a lot less today than they where in December?

And so, probably is the house, except there isn't a website you can go to that shows the price of the house fluctuating on a per second basis.

End of the day its up to the two of you to come to an amicable agreement. There is no signed document between you (yet)  that states that you will take the shares and he the house. And the will doesn't specify that. So you can decide what you both agree is fair.

So currently the situation is that there's a house worth an amount (you dont know what that is) and shares worth an amount (you can see that change by the second)

And you will need to agree how to amicably split that, which is difficult in an environment where even professional valuers dont really know what the price of a house is, and it coudl potentially fall by say 20% between now and end of the year. Or 5%. Or nothing at all.

Maybe (this is just an idea) you both agree (crucial, document it) to do something like, wait a couple months for the housing market to at least indicate whats happening, get 3 local EAs to value it then, in the meantime sell all the shares, and then "true up" based on the average of those valuations. In the meantime you arent also subject to the vagaries of share prices.

(In normal times I sugegst you get 3 EA valuations now but prices now and in 2 or 3 months time could be quite different.

@james.wardle these are precisely the questions I wanted you and your brother to consider and agree on.

When an estate is left in equally between 2 or more beneficiaries, is that assets such as property, shares etc are converted to cash (because they rarely have the same value) and the cash is then distributed. The value of any property, shares etc will be different on the date of death, date Probate is granted and date they are eventually sold. Its the date the cash is distributed that matters, since that is when each beneficiary receives their equal share.

If you and your brother do not want to sell the house and the shares, then you need to reach agreement on their value at whatever date you both choose. As long as you are both happy that you have received your share of the inheritance, that is fine.