Employer Still Claiming Furlough After Termination 11 May 2020 at 5:33PM edited 11 May 2020 at 5:34PM in Redundancy & redundancy planning 12 replies 771 views

StephensJ

Hi!

I’ve been reading these boards for years, so thank you to everyone who has helped me with my various questions, but this is my first post. 

I am  C-19 career victim, unfortunately, and have received notice of termination of my post whilst I am also on Furlough. What my employer is proposing to do is to keep me on furlough but include that as my working notice. Now, maybe I am
wrong but, I figured they’d have to re-employ me first and then make me serve my 1mth notice, as they have confirmed that they won’t pay it in lieu, but I’ll get full pay for this period. 

My concern here is that what they are doing is claiming furlough assistance from the government to subsidise my notice pay, therefore only paying the additional on top of the 80% cap up to 100%. In fact, I strongly suspect this is what they are doing. Is this correct/within right/legal? If not, who would I report my suspicion to because, I don’t want to be involved in any scheme untoward in the slightest that may affect my taxation or monies due.

sharpe106

To begin with if the company does something wrong it is not your fault. As notice period is still salary I would suggest they can still claim for that. All they have really said is that the scheme can’t be used for redundancies payments.

Andy_L

StephensJ said:

Hi!

I’ve been reading these boards for years, so thank you to everyone who has helped me with my various questions, but this is my first post. 

I am  C-19 career victim, unfortunately, and have received notice of termination of my post whilst I am also on Furlough. What my employer is proposing to do is to keep me on furlough but include that as my working notice. Now, maybe I am
wrong but, I figured they’d have to re-employ me first and then make me serve my 1mth notice, as they have confirmed that they won’t pay it in lieu, but I’ll get full pay for this period. 

you are still an employee while on furlough
"Your employer can still make you redundant while you’re on furlough or afterwards."
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/check-if-you-could-be-covered-by-the-coronavirus-job-retention-scheme#while-youre-on-furlough

gwapoman

Does not clarify if Notice pay is 80% or regular salary  ??

I am in the same position getting made redundant whilst on furlough and the concern is that i had a decent pay rise from april 1 and might not see it it reflected in my notice pay as i am only gettin 80 % based on my Feb salary  !!

sharpe106

If the pay for notice period is 80% or 100% that is something the government has not mentioned. So unless they specifically state one figure or the other until it is tested in court nobody really knows. You could create a good argument quite happily for either figure. I would think if they only paid you 80% and you wanted a 100% you would have to go and see an employment specialist. Which let’s be honest would probably cost you more than you would get anyway.  

gwapoman

sharpe106 said:

If the pay for notice period is 80% or 100% that is something the government has not mentioned. So unless they specifically state one figure or the other until it is tested in court nobody really knows. You could create a good argument quite happily for either figure. I would think if they only paid you 80% and you wanted a 100% you would have to go and see an employment specialist. Which let’s be honest would probably cost you more than you would get anyway.  

Not for me it would not because thats what i pay my union membership for ....

I will ask my HR next week upon being served my notice to  see what they say and then seek union clarification .

tom_154

gwapoman said:

Does not clarify if Notice pay is 80% or regular salary  ??

I am in the same position getting made redundant whilst on furlough and the concern is that i had a decent pay rise from april 1 and might not see it it reflected in my notice pay as i am only gettin 80 % based on my Feb salary  !!

If you’re made redundant while you're furloughed

You can still be made redundant while you’re furloughed. If you’re entitled to redundancy pay, it will be calculated using the amount you earned before you were furloughed.

That's from citizens advice website...

gwapoman

tom_154 said:

gwapoman said:

Does not clarify if Notice pay is 80% or regular salary  ??

I am in the same position getting made redundant whilst on furlough and the concern is that i had a decent pay rise from april 1 and might not see it it reflected in my notice pay as i am only gettin 80 % based on my Feb salary  !!

If you’re made redundant while you're furloughed

You can still be made redundant while you’re furloughed. If you’re entitled to redundancy pay, it will be calculated using the amount you earned before you were furloughed.

That's from citizens advice website...

Yes but thats Redundancy pay and not notice pay without sounding pedantic they are two separate things .

ThePeopleDirector

If the employee is entitled to at least one week’s greater notice under their contract than the statutory minimum notice period, then the right to minimum pay during statutory notice does not apply – see s87(4) ERA 1996. Accordingly, unless the furlough agreement (or – unlikely – employment contract) says otherwise, the orthodox conclusion is that an employee will only be entitled to their 80% pay during their contractual notice period. This means that the employer will be able to reclaim some or, quite possibly, all of the notice pay from HMRC.

Of course all this can still be challenged in a Tribunal after COVID-19 has left us alone.

StephensJ

Hi all, thanks for the replies. I feel I need to clarify some points to help you to help me. 

I am currently on furlough at a cap of £2500 per month before tax and contributions, or I was until a few days ago. This is not my full monthly salary, and the £2500 does not equate to 80% of it, that’s just the limit I’ve had to take.

I have now been made redundant and served 1mth working notice. This has been confirmed on a call and in writing, and it has also been stated in writing that I will be paid at FULL PAY during my working notice. However, what they have also said in writing is that they plan to
leave me on furlough during my notice, therefore still claiming from the scheme but, they’d have to top up any money to reach my full salary.

So, in the same letter I am told both that it’s a working notice, and that I’m on furlough and I’m not required to work. So, which is it; you tell me. I did ask them if they meant Garden Leave instead, but they confirmed again in writing that they meant I’m still on furlough.

What troubles me is that the scheme is meant for companies who are planning to retain employees, to claim some financial support to do so. As they have no plans to retain me, surely this scheme is null and void, and therefore subsidising my notice pay up to £2500 from the scheme is surely not right, and they should pay me 100% salary from their own funds rather than £2500 plus extra to 100%. Is this correct, or can they subsidise it?

To confirm, I am talking about the notice period, not stat redundancy pay (SRP) , of which I am entitled to 2wks at capped £538 per week tax free; that’s not in question. Additionally they have agreed in writing that I will be paid outstanding untaken holiday as part of my final pay along with my SRP and final wages.

Andy_L

StephensJ said:

Hi all, thanks for the replies. I feel I need to clarify some points to help you to help me. 

I am currently on furlough at a cap of £2500 per month before tax and contributions, or I was until a few days ago. This is not my full monthly salary, and the £2500 does not equate to 80% of it, that’s just the limit I’ve had to take.

I have now been made redundant and served 1mth working notice. This has been confirmed on a call and in writing, and it has also been stated in writing that I will be paid at FULL PAY during my working notice. However, what they have also said in writing is that they plan to
leave me on furlough during my notice, therefore still claiming from the scheme but, they’d have to top up any money to reach my full salary.

So, in the same letter I am told both that it’s a working notice, and that I’m on furlough and I’m not required to work. So, which is it; you tell me. I did ask them if they meant Garden Leave instead, but they confirmed again in writing that they meant I’m still on furlough.

What troubles me is that the scheme is meant for companies who are planning to retain employees, to claim some financial support to do so. As they have no plans to retain me, surely this scheme is null and void, and therefore subsidising my notice pay up to £2500 from the scheme is surely not right, and they should pay me 100% salary from their own funds rather than £2500 plus extra to 100%. Is this correct, or can they subsidise it?

To confirm, I am talking about the notice period, not stat redundancy pay (SRP) , of which I am entitled to 2wks at capped £538 per week tax free; that’s not in question. Additionally they have agreed in writing that I will be paid outstanding untaken holiday as part of my final pay along with my SRP and final wages.

No it isn't