BW Legal sending letters but I've recently relocated overseas - do I still need to reply?

Kamran

Hi all, thanks for your help. Unfortunately, the application to strike out was dismissed. Summary below:

• Judge Bishop from Croydon - nice lady and quite logical in her explanations.
• The claimant sent documents to me on in April 2020 via email, but it was the wrong email address! So they got a ticking off for being sloppy
• The claimant obtained the address from the DVLA (which were correct at the time) and continued to use that address even after I shared with them the correct overseas address. In fact they used a second (wrong) UK address.
• The claimant wrote to me on the 22nd of May requesting evidence of my emigration, but they didn't receive a response (because in reality, I received nothing overseas)
• They did an Equifax trace subsequently which confirmed that I still had documents registered to my last known UK address, so that's why they sent "documents to action" at that address
• Judge Bishop did not think it's reasonable or proportionate to strike out the claimant's application as they appeared to do what was required of them and had evidence of a valid UK address.

--

• However, the claimant must now serve upon the defendant, all documentation relied upon at the correct overseas postal address. Judge asked me what I would prefer (email or post) and I chose post. Though she did say they should also send a cc to my email for convenience.
• As this is outside jurisdiction, additional time is required to receive/respond. They have 21 days to send, and then I have 21 days to file a defence with the court and claimant. The matter will be dealt with "on paperwork" after that, depending on what's been said.
• Apparently, my vehicle in 2017 entered a car park (Wembley retail park) that had a max stay of 90mins and the vehicle stayed for 1h 42mins as noted by ANPR photographs.
• Costs will be dealt with at the end of the case as I have not received any documents at all.
• Claimant's legal dept need to "buck their ideas up" and think about "service outside the jurisdiction"
• Claimant's legal dept advised to use a traceable post e.g. DHL.
• Judge Bishop advised me that if I say I wasn't the driver of the car, then that won't work as I was the registered keeper at the time.
• Judge Bishop advised me that I choose to accept that I stayed there for longer and accept to pay the PCN, I might be able to negotiate with the claimant to pay a smaller amount because they haven't sent documents to my correct overseas address. Any work done after May 2020 was not sent to the right address and I could argue for a reduction in costs, should I wish to accept that the driver of the vehicle overstayed.

Thanks everyone for your ongoing support. I guess I now just wait to see whether the documents arrive at my address in Jeddah. If they send by email but not by post, I guess the case would be thrown out as the claimant didn't follow court orders?

Assuming I receive documents and the claim is as is summarised above, can anyone advise an option for defence? It was probably so long ago that I couldn't comment on the incident and as I no longer reside in the UK I couldn't go to the car park to take pictures to see if there's inadequte signage.

Help as always very much appreciated. Thanks again

Castle

Kamran said:

Hi all, thanks for your help. Unfortunately, the application to strike out was dismissed. Summary below:

• Apparently, my vehicle in 2017 entered a car park (Wembley retail park) that had a max stay of 90mins and the vehicle stayed for 1h 42mins as noted by ANPR photographs.
• 
  

The PPC must allow 10 minutes to leave the car park at the end of the contract and a period of time at the start for the driver to read the terms and conditions; which in your case only needs to be 2 minutes so that the period of parking is 90 minutes and therefore no breach has occurred.

Kamran

Castle said:

Kamran said:

Hi all, thanks for your help. Unfortunately, the application to strike out was dismissed. Summary below:

• Apparently, my vehicle in 2017 entered a car park (Wembley retail park) that had a max stay of 90mins and the vehicle stayed for 1h 42mins as noted by ANPR photographs.
• 
  

The PPC must allow 10 minutes to leave the car park at the end of the contract and a period of time at the start for the driver to read the terms and conditions; which in your case only needs to be 2 minutes so that the period of parking is 90 minutes and therefore no breach has occurred.

Do you have this in writing somewhere that I can refer to?

Jenni_D

It's in the AOS code of practice ... both BPA and IPC codes have similar wording, and have done so for several years. (BWL are representing a PPC - the name of the PPC will determine which association applies).

Castle

You want section 15, (Grace Periods), of the IPC's COP:-
https://theipc.info/uploads/nO2Fg-ZOR7SS0YEXy1myzN8sRw7tq4nprLtyH_EGFTI/Code of Practice v6 Amended 14th June 2017-V1.pdf

Coupon-mad

If it's Wembley Retail Park it's UKPPO I assume?

• Judge Bishop advised me that if I say I wasn't the driver of the car, then that won't work as I was the registered keeper at the time.

What, even though in 2017 I doubt the PPC were necessarily using POFA 2012 compliant NTKs?  Does the Judge assume all parking firms can hold all registered keepers liable?  Nope.  Not if they didn't fulfil all the conditions of Schedule 4.  I wish Judges knew this, it's hardly difficult..

Kamran

Coupon-mad said:

If it's Wembley Retail Park it's UKPPO I assume?

• Judge Bishop advised me that if I say I wasn't the driver of the car, then that won't work as I was the registered keeper at the time.

What, even though in 2017 I doubt the PPC were necessarily using POFA 2012 compliant NTKs?  Does the Judge assume all parking firms can hold all registered keepers liable?  Nope.  Not if they didn't fulfil all the conditions of Schedule 4.  I wish Judges knew this, it's hardly difficult..

Yes correct! It's UKPPO.

Coupon-mad

• However, the claimant must now serve upon the defendant, all documentation relied upon at the correct overseas postal address. Judge asked me what I would prefer (email or post) and I chose post. Though she did say they should also send a cc to my email for convenience.

• As this is outside jurisdiction, additional time is required to receive/respond. They have 21 days to send, and then I have 21 days to file a defence with the court and claimant. The matter will be dealt with "on paperwork" after that, depending on what's been said.

• Apparently, my vehicle in 2017 entered a car park (Wembley retail park) that had a max stay of 90mins and the vehicle stayed for 1h 42mins 

When you get the WS and evidence by email, show us both sides of the NTK.  By 2018 they were using POFA wording but I can't remember about 2017.

Also read up on IPC Grace periods in the Code of Practice that related to 2017.  Six minutes to drive in, round the car park and find a space, then six minutes to get back into the car, load purchases and drive out past other shoppers then past the final camera, looks very reasonable and that there has been no breach of a 90 minute parking allowance.  You have to have time to get to a space, and to leave afterwards, in moving traffic, and that element of time is not parking time. 

Clearly your first Judge was clueless about both the above matters.

Kamran

Hi all,
Thanks for your replies so far (re: the no-breach angle - it makes sense).

The claimant was given 21 days by Judge Bishop to send by post (and also a copy via email) of all the documentation, after which I would have 21 days to respond (I never received this in writing by the way but presume there is a record). I've received nothing so far by post or by email. We are currently on day 19 from the date of the hearing.

I guess the claimant has either been too slow or wants to not pursue? How can I "snitch" (for want of a better word) to the court that the claimant has failed to abide by the court order? I guess if 21 days hits and I didn't receive anything, then automatically the case is dismissed?

My suggestion would be that I email the court on day 21 to say that Judge Bishop ordered the claimant to send the defendant all documentation within 21 days by secure, trackable post, in addition to email. Neither was done and so I believe this to mean that the claimant does not wish to continue with the claim, and as such I would like to reclaim my costs and ask the court to dismiss the case.

Does that sound right? Cheers

Umkomaas

Sounds about right, leave it to day 22 though.