No build over agreement

gooner888

Hi,
Hopefully you guys can help, I'm looking to purchase a house that had an extension built in 2017. The extension is on top of a public sewage pipe, however there was no build over agreement with Thames Water. The vendor has produced a signed building control final certificate for the extension. Would building control know about the pipes, and take this into consideration, would they not need to see a build over agreement first to sign it off?

The vendors want me to get indemnity for this, but for some reason it just doesn't sit right with me. Surely it would put off perspective buyers when I choose to sell up down the line? 

Any advice would be appreciated!

Thanks

princeofpounds

Building regs do include rules about building over public sewer pipes (Reg H4 apparently).

Building Regs will not know about the pipe unless they are told, most probably. They are not psychic, and it's not usually obvious from surface level.

They do need a build-over agreement (or self-certification in some cases). If they don't have one, and they have certificate, they clearly haven't informed Building Regs about it. 

Indemnity may protect you from some of the financial consequences of it being dug up (details matter!). They won't stop it being dug up if it needs to happen.

Personally this would discourage me, but it would depend on the situation. If it's a small pipe, a fairly restricted length, and digging the flooring up wouldn't be the end of the world, maybe ok... quite a few buildings do run over drains to some degree. But it's an issue and one that can never be fully resolved, and subsequent buyers will ask themselves the same question. Maybe some other posters have more direct experience with it.

SameOldRoundabout

Without a build over agreement as far as I’m aware you have no recourse or insurance to pay to put your floor back together etc if the water board need to rip it all up. Indemnity will only protect against legal action by the water board or the council for committing the act, not help with if something goes wrong. It would put me off a property. 

Having said that is it over a manhole/access cover or just the pipe? I’ve owned a house previously which had an extension over a pipe but the access remained in the driveway, the water board never had any issue with it and it was never mentioned to us during purchase, we found out by chance after a blocked drain up the road was flushed and the smell of sewage in our kitchen was awful! If you love the house maybe speak to your water board in a general way to ask if it’s an issue. 

Tiglet2

If you do decide to take the Build Over Indemnity Policy, then insist that the vendor pays for it.  It should be at their cost not yours.

thearchitect

This is why a completion certificate from your local authority is not conclusive proof of build quality or statutory compliance.

Doozergirl

If the sewer goes under (the water company maps aren't always accurate) then it's likely that the building inspector judged how they were built over.   They may have assumed they were private if they saw them? 

If you can get a CCTV survey of the drains carried out by a drainage company.l, then you can assess the state of the drains.  That's all the water companies really ask for in order to approve the build over.   Usually it would be CCTV of before and after, but you can still gauge the quality of the pipe now.  

Slinky

SameOldRoundabout said:

Without a build over agreement as far as I’m aware you have no recourse or insurance to pay to put your floor back together etc if the water board need to rip it all up. Indemnity will only protect against legal action by the water board or the council for committing the act, not help with if something goes wrong. It would put me off a property. 

Having said that is it over a manhole/access cover or just the pipe? I’ve owned a house previously which had an extension over a pipe but the access remained in the driveway, the water board never had any issue with it and it was never mentioned to us during purchase, we found out by chance after a blocked drain up the road was flushed and the smell of sewage in our kitchen was awful! If you love the house maybe speak to your water board in a general way to ask if it’s an issue. 

We had a build over agreement for the extension we built. I'm pretty sure we had this at our risk. If Anglian had needed to knock the corner of the house down to access the main sewer I don't think we would have been able to claim on insurance; indeed the insurance company knew nothing about it so why would the risk be theirs. Not sure whether this is an insurable risk, the OP should investigate if they decide to go ahead.

gooner888

Thanks for the input guys, food for thought. 

I've requested to see calculations and drawings for the foundations to make sure that the build has taken the pipes into account . Waiting to hear back from the vendor still.

I think that it's probably very unlikely that anything would happen to the pipes but it just makes things more complicated when I come to sell especially as a few of you have said it would put you off....

Doozergirl

Before 2011, you could build over shared drains with impunity.  This is a new thing. 

Fact is, no one is going to be knocking down houses for a cheap bit of plastic/clay pipe, build over agreement or not.    Has anyone ever heard of anything being demolished to fix a pipe?  There is more than one way to skin a cat.

Davesnave

Slinky said:

SameOldRoundabout said:

Without a build over agreement as far as I’m aware you have no recourse or insurance to pay to put your floor back together etc if the water board need to rip it all up. Indemnity will only protect against legal action by the water board or the council for committing the act, not help with if something goes wrong. It would put me off a property. 

Having said that is it over a manhole/access cover or just the pipe? I’ve owned a house previously which had an extension over a pipe but the access remained in the driveway, the water board never had any issue with it and it was never mentioned to us during purchase, we found out by chance after a blocked drain up the road was flushed and the smell of sewage in our kitchen was awful! If you love the house maybe speak to your water board in a general way to ask if it’s an issue. 

We had a build over agreement for the extension we built. I'm pretty sure we had this at our risk. If Anglian had needed to knock the corner of the house down to access the main sewer I don't think we would have been able to claim on insurance; indeed the insurance company knew nothing about it so why would the risk be theirs. Not sure whether this is an insurable risk, the OP should investigate if they decide to go ahead.

So did we. The agreement gave the water authority the right to come in and break-up the floors etc to reach their sewer, but the measures we had to take to ensure no damage to it more or less precluded that. Hugely reinforced floors and foundations. The damn thing was over 2m down as well, so we concluded that it was not a threat to worry about. The devil is in the detail I'd think.

This was all long before 2011 BTW.