Can they take our house

mattyprice4004

I'd definitely be using legal representation for this one - sounds a bit of a mess, but if his insurance doesn't cover negligence then he might have to eventually stump up. 

Insurers are there to cover a pre-determined set of events; where a party has acted negligently they can and frequently do reclaim their costs from the negligent party. 

pinkshoes

Levikelly said:

I currently co own my house with my boyfriend its owner outright so no mortgage. he had an accident at work in October the ladder fell off the top of his work van after he secured it and hit an on coming lorry causing damage to the lorry and injuring the driver he notified his insurance company who have now written to him saying that because it was an unsafe load his insurance is invalid but under the rroad traffic act 1988 they have to pay the claim but they want him to sign the consent and indemnity form and agree that he then needs to reimburse the insurance company every penny which they've stated in the letter could be upwards of £50k he's a self employed window fitter with 3 young children one of which is only 2 weeks old we have no other income and he hasn't worked for 6 weeks now due to covid .the underwriters have said they will settle and then send him the bill and come up with a payment plan but I'm concerned that they could take our home? Were not married and the house is half mine I understand that he needs to be accountable for the accident but Its nothing to do with me where do I stand ? Its the last thing I need right now.with a new baby and being isolated from family and friends the thought of losing my house through no fault of mine  tlerrifies me  when we worked so hard to pay it off 

The key parts are in bold...
They are claiming your boyfriend was negligent. He is claiming that he wasn't. 
You absolutely will need legal advice about this. He will need to claim that he was NOT negligent in securing his ladder e.g. other circumstances caused it to come loose and fall off.

DID he secure the ladder properly? DID he check it before driving away? Can he get CCTV proving that he did indeed secure the ladder properly before driving off? (check houses with CCTV and video door doorbells in the area)

A starting point would be to write to the insurance company saying he disputes their claim of negligence, the ladder was secure when he set off on his journey, and that it is unknown what caused the ladder to come loose and fall off. State that therefore he will NOT be signing any paperwork admitting liability nor agreeing to pay. 

Obviously if he knows he did not secure the ladder properly then hmmmm...

HOW is your house owned? Tenants in common or joint tenants? e.g. me and my ex owned as tenants in common with a 50% share each, so if the above had happened to my ex, then they would have no claim over my half. If you are joint tenants, you both have equal rights over the WHOLE property, so they can put a claim of £50k on the whole house if they win in court, not just against his 'half'.

Again, you will need legal advice.

davidmcn

pinkshoes said:

Levikelly said:

I currently co own my house with my boyfriend its owner outright so no mortgage. he had an accident at work in October the ladder fell off the top of his work van after he secured it and hit an on coming lorry causing damage to the lorry and injuring the driver he notified his insurance company who have now written to him saying that because it was an unsafe load his insurance is invalid but under the rroad traffic act 1988 they have to pay the claim but they want him to sign the consent and indemnity form and agree that he then needs to reimburse the insurance company every penny which they've stated in the letter could be upwards of £50k he's a self employed window fitter with 3 young children one of which is only 2 weeks old we have no other income and he hasn't worked for 6 weeks now due to covid .the underwriters have said they will settle and then send him the bill and come up with a payment plan but I'm concerned that they could take our home? Were not married and the house is half mine I understand that he needs to be accountable for the accident but Its nothing to do with me where do I stand ? Its the last thing I need right now.with a new baby and being isolated from family and friends the thought of losing my house through no fault of mine  tlerrifies me  when we worked so hard to pay it off 

Can he get CCTV proving that he did indeed secure the ladder properly before driving off? (check houses with CCTV and video door doorbells in the area)

How many CCTV systems are likely to have archives from over six months ago?

Manxman_in_exile

Have I got hold of the wrong end of the stick?  Reading mattyprice4004 and pinkshoes, am I to understand that it is commonplace for car insurance policies to exclude liability for negligence?  (ie the insurer will pay out to a third party but can still recover the costs of any claim from the insured).

Perhaps I'm mistaken, but doesn't that sort of negate the point of having the insurance?  Apart from the fact that it's a legal requirement, the main reason I have car insurance is to protect myself from any unpleasant financial consequences in the entirely foreseeable event that I cause an accident through my own negligence.

If that were the case I would have thought a very very large number of PI and other claims arising from car accidents would end up with the insurance companies pursuing their policy holders personally.  Is that what happens and I'm not aware of it?

Do I need to look very very closely at my insurance policy to ensure it does cover me for my own negligence?

EDIT: I appreciate there's a question about "moral hazard" here, but isn't that what the excess is for?

davidmcn

Manxman_in_exile said:

Do I need to look very very closely at my insurance policy to ensure it does cover me for my own negligence?

EDIT: I appreciate there's a question about "moral hazard" here, but isn't that what the excess is for?

Bear in mind this isn't a car. I think it's specifically an exclusion for unsafe loads which is the issue (a quick search suggests that's at least not uncommon for commercial vehicle policies).

SuperHan

Manxman_in_exile said:

Have I got hold of the wrong end of the stick?  Reading mattyprice4004 and pinkshoes, am I to understand that it is commonplace for car insurance policies to exclude liability for negligence?  (ie the insurer will pay out to a third party but can still recover the costs of any claim from the insured).

Perhaps I'm mistaken, but doesn't that sort of negate the point of having the insurance?  Apart from the fact that it's a legal requirement, the main reason I have car insurance is to protect myself from any unpleasant financial consequences in the entirely foreseeable event that I cause an accident through my own negligence.

If that were the case I would have thought a very very large number of PI and other claims arising from car accidents would end up with the insurance companies pursuing their policy holders personally.  Is that what happens and I'm not aware of it?

Do I need to look very very closely at my insurance policy to ensure it does cover me for my own negligence?

EDIT: I appreciate there's a question about "moral hazard" here, but isn't that what the excess is for?

Are you confusing an accident with negligence? These aren't the same thing. Negligence requires that you didn't take proper care. If you don't have sufficient tread on your tyres (as you've been negligent in checking), then insurance may not pay out. If you were driving under the influence (i.e. without due care, so negligent) then insurance would not pay out.

If you are unable to stop in time and hit the car in front, then that's not quite without proper care (or at least it may be difficult to prove when it was). An at-fault accident doesn't necessarily equal negligence - it could happen after you've taken all proper care to avoid said accident.

Manxman_in_exile

No, I'm not confusing an "accident" with negligence.  (Although I suspect that at least 90% of road "accidents" are directly attributable to somebody's negligence.  "Accidents" do not usually happen spontaneously).

Surely in the two examples you suggest, insurance would have to pay out on a third party claim?  That's not the question; the question is could they recover any pay-out from the insured in those circumstances?

"If you are unable to stop in time and hit the car in front, then that's not quite without proper care (or at least it may be difficult to prove when it was)."  If you do this I would suggest it is at least negligent, and could even be reckless or deliberate along the scale of culpability.  It would be difficult to show (on the balance of probabilities) that you were taking all reasonable care if you drove into the car in front without stopping in time. The facts would speak for themselves.  And "without proper care" doesn't necessarily come into the equation with negligence?

The idea of an "at-fault" accident has nothing to do with the notion of negligence, has it?

elsien

And going right back to the OP who says the partner hasn't worked for 6 weeks because of Covid, window cleaners fall into the exception category if they can maintain safe distancing.
So unless he's isolating for health reasons, there's nothing in the guidance to stop him from continuing to work. (Aside from the potentially no longer being insured issue, obviously.) 

Manxman_in_exile

davidmcn said:

Manxman_in_exile said:

Do I need to look very very closely at my insurance policy to ensure it does cover me for my own negligence?

EDIT: I appreciate there's a question about "moral hazard" here, but isn't that what the excess is for?

Bear in mind this isn't a car. I think it's specifically an exclusion for unsafe loads which is the issue (a quick search suggests that's at least not uncommon for commercial vehicle policies).

Thanks.  It did cross my mind after I posted that there could be special circumstances around commercial vehicles policies and unsafe loads.

I suppose what surprised me was what I read as the suggestion that a common or ordinary "consumer" car insurance policy would even attempt to exclude liability for negligence.  Every day I witness several instances of behaviour both on and off the road that a court could easily hold to be negligent if an "accident" ensued.  I try my very best to be a diligent and careful driver, but it would be the utmost foolishness if I were to pretend I could never cause an accident due to my own inadvertant negligence.  I take the view that that's what insurance is for

davidmcn

elsien said:

And going right back to the OP who says the partner hasn't worked for 6 weeks because of Covid, window cleaners fall into the exception category if they can maintain safe distancing.
So unless he's isolating for health reasons, there's nothing in the guidance to stop him from continuing to work. (Aside from the potentially no longer being insured issue, obviously.) 

And the possibility of his clients not wanting windows cleaned (closed commercial premises etc).