Scotland and face masks - how when there are none?

[Deleted User]

 " How does COVID-19 spread?

People can catch COVID-19 from others who have the virus. The disease spreads primarily from person to person through small droplets from the nose or mouth, which are expelled when a person with COVID-19 coughs, sneezes, or speaks. These droplets are relatively heavy, do not travel far and quickly sink to the ground. People can catch COVID-19 if they breathe in these droplets from a person infected with the virus. This is why it is important to stay at least 1 metre (3 feet) away from others. These droplets can land on objects and surfaces around the person such as tables, doorknobs and handrails. People can become infected by touching these objects or surfaces, then touching their eyes, nose or mouth. This is why it is important to wash your hands regularly with soap and water or clean with alcohol-based hand rub.

WHO is assessing ongoing research on the ways that COVID-19 is spread and will continue to share updated findings."

https://www.who.int/news-room/q-a-detail/q-a-coronaviruses#:~:text=People can catch COVID-,person who is sick.

unholyangel

Poster_586329 said:

 " How does COVID-19 spread?

People can catch COVID-19 from others who have the virus. The disease spreads primarily from person to person through small droplets from the nose or mouth, which are expelled when a person with COVID-19 coughs, sneezes, or speaks. These droplets are relatively heavy, do not travel far and quickly sink to the ground. People can catch COVID-19 if they breathe in these droplets from a person infected with the virus. This is why it is important to stay at least 1 metre (3 feet) away from others. These droplets can land on objects and surfaces around the person such as tables, doorknobs and handrails. People can become infected by touching these objects or surfaces, then touching their eyes, nose or mouth. This is why it is important to wash your hands regularly with soap and water or clean with alcohol-based hand rub.

WHO is assessing ongoing research on the ways that COVID-19 is spread and will continue to share updated findings."

https://www.who.int/news-room/q-a-detail/q-a-coronaviruses#:~:text=People can catch COVID-,person who is sick.

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[Deleted User]

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/primarily

justwhat

ToxicWomble said:

 Maybe now people will have a semblance of sympathy for the government before jumping up and down shouting “scandal” at the lack of PPE -not quite as easy to get hold of as you thought is it ??

You will notice there are charter planes coming in from turkey and china. There are plenty masks and PPE , but you have to order them and get them here. If you do not order them they/you can't get them. 
The .gov never ordered them in the quantities they needed.

neilmcl

Poster_586329 said:

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/primarily

If you're going to quote something then at least try and understand it, you're correct it is in plain English so I'm not sure how you're getting it wrong.

I'll sum it down for you, shall I. Covid-19 spreads primarily from droplets exhaled from infected persons when they sneeze/cough. There are two ways that this can be transmitted to a non infected person, 1, they can breath the exhaled droplets in if close enough or, 2, they can pick up the virus from surfaces where these droplets have landed. Now it's quite clear given how long the virus can last on surfaces, and pretty obvious if you think about it, that the chances of you picking up the virus from surfaces indirectly are far higher than being sneezed/coughed on by an infected person. Every health body throughout the world have recognised this which is why their number one message is to wash hands frequently and for 20 mins, and also why wearing a face mask for protection other than in a clinical setting has a very low efficacy, that's just a simple fact.

brook2jack2

Masks are not there to protect you , they are there to protect your contacts . 

Cloth coverings are advised for two reasons 
a they stop you touching your face which is a primary way of spreading the virus

b they may inhibit some spread of virus from your nose and mouth. 

Most members of the public do not use PPE in a safe or effective manner . Cloth coverings  should not be worn on the street as the longer they are worn the more saturated they become and end up like a soggy sponge of virus and bacteria, handling them then contaminates your hands with a soup of bugs which you will then spread around. Put them on when speaking to people or inside eg a shop or public transport whilst keeping social distancing. Then take them off Handling by the elastic or strap only , don't touch the mask and wash in a wash hotter than 60 degrees. 

Fluid resistant masks should not be used as 
a you are depriving someone who is at much higher risk than you of a vital piece of protection
b in all likelihood the way you use and wear it will make it ineffective . 

C a cloth covering when used properly and constructed out of natural fibres (eg cotton) which are close woven so you can't see through it and has multiple hybrid layers , fits well and is washed in a hot wash after each use is more sustainable and will perfectly fulfil the public health brief. 

Masks and all other PPE are not readily available and haven't been for months . As a dentist we have been unable to get anything since February and are managing to keep going by pooling resources with other practices to keep emergency service going. The idea that there is readily available PPE if you just order it is fallacious and has been for months. 

It is frustrating to see people out on the streets wearing fluid resistant masks and pp3/fp95 masks And gloves  in ways which totally negate their effectiveness , may indeed make chances of infection worse and have helped to create shortages of PPE and incentives for criminal elements to sell substandard PPE. 

I wear proper PPE at work and have made cloth coverings (Cotton face masks) for all my family to wear at supermarket etc . I have shown them how and when to wear , how to take on and off and wash. 

[Deleted User]

"4. What is the mode of transmission? How (easily) does it spread?

While animals are believed to be the original source, the virus spread is now from person to person (human-to-human transmission). There is not enough epidemiological information at this time to determine how easily this virus spreads between people, but it is currently estimated that, on average, one infected person will infect between two and three other people. 

The virus seems to be transmitted mainly via small respiratory droplets through sneezing, coughing, or when people interact with each other for some time in close proximity (usually less than one metre). These droplets can then be inhaled, or they can land on surfaces that others may come into contact with, who can then get infected when they touch their nose, mouth or eyes. The virus can survive on different surfaces from several hours (copper, cardboard) up to a few days (plastic and stainless steel). However, the amount of viable virus declines over time and may not always be present in sufficient numbers to cause infection.

The incubation period for COVID-19 (i.e. the time between exposure to the virus and onset of symptoms) is currently estimated to be between one and 14 days. 

We know that the virus can be transmitted when people who are infected show symptoms such as coughing. There is also some evidence suggesting that transmission can occur from a person that is infected even two days before showing symptoms; however, uncertainties remain about the effect of transmission by asymptomatic persons.  "

- European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control

https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/covid-19/questions-answers

[Deleted User]

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/mainly

neilmcl

Poster_586329 said:

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/mainly

I think you're the one who needs a better grasp of English, you clearly can't understand the difference between transmitting and contracting the virus . You go ahead and believe whatever you want I'm bored trying to explain the obvious to you, I'm out.

cognoscenti

Thanks to those realising at last that spread of the virus is from contact to face (yes, among others).
By now some of you have no doubt seen that touching the face including the eyes is a threat of infection - and masks/face-coverings for general use do not cover the eyes.
For obvious reasons.

This is why so many of the specialists in the field say that the wearing of facial coverings by the general public could be more of a danger than not wearing anything; it is human nature to touch our own heads and faces multiple times daily without realising the action has been performed.
Sixteen times an hour was the figure given by studies reported in Healthline which says that even medical professionals touched their face 19 times in two hours.
Ok so that's not UK research and because of demographics there might well be differences but still, it gives some idea.
 See Healthline.com " You Probably Touch Your Face 16 Times an Hour: Here’s How to Stop"


Hence my pessimism that recommending any facial covering in general use to prevent viral infection will have any benefit at all.
If even professional epidemiologists cannot agree, what chance us mere mortals - and are you willing to take that risk?