UKPC rejecting appeal for PCN on allocated parking

Sudip_124

I have an allocated parking space with valid permit in my residential building and needs which is managed by UKPC. They have recently put a parking charge notice on my car windscreen for not displaying the permit. £60 if payed within 14 days . The permit was there but was partly got covered. However the photographs were deliberately taken from an angle and with out of focus to haze out the details of the parking. Some other details in the PCN were wrong - make, colour and post code (post code was of next building!) I have made an appeal(as driver & keeper) which they rejected but reduced the fine to £20. I am contemplating to appeal in POPLA on following grounds:

• Incorrect post code & out of focus photographs resulting in insufficient evidence
• No loss to UKPC
• Car park needs fob for access. So unauthorised parking there results in trespassing rather than parking charge

Should I go ahead with the appeal or pay since the amount is £20. If yes are there any other valid points I can present

Umkomaas

I am contemplating to appeal in POPLA on following grounds:

• Incorrect post code & out of focus photographs resulting in insufficient evidence
• No loss to UKPC
• Car park needs fob for access. So unauthorised parking there results in trespassing rather than parking charge

None of which will be successful at POPLA. 

What does your deeds/lease/AST say (or not say) about parking?  Is your space shown as yours in any of these?

Have you contacted the management company supervising the residences to get them involved in having the ticket cancelled?

Sudip_124

What does your deeds/lease/AST say (or not say) about parking?  Is your space shown as yours in any of these?

Have you contacted the management company supervising the residences to get them involved in having the ticket cancelled?

Thank you for your prompt and clear response.
AST is a standard RLA(residential landlord association) document which has a generic line that the tenant agrees to park at the allocated parking space. Nothing specific. The parking slot number is mentioned in only the sticker.
The management office is closed due to Covid lock down. Only couple of security personnel are available and they are the ones who put these "pcn" on cars.
Considering your response that POPLA would reject, is it worth taking the hassle for 20 quids. Or if I pay I would set a trend?

Umkomaas

Considering your response that POPLA would reject, is it worth taking the hassle for 20 quids. Or if I pay I would set a trend?

It's always a fine line when you get an 'offer' to pay £20 to avoid the hassle of dealing with what could be a protracted process. No regular here would pay it, but we're not you, and we're not saddled with having to make the choice. Ultimately it's your decision, and I for one wouldn't criticise you making a pragmatic one. 

I have made an appeal(as driver & keeper) which they rejected but reduced the fine to £20.

Crucial error. This further closes down your chances of success at POPLA. But losing at POPLA doesn't mean you have to pay, only a Judge can direct you to do so. But once it has gone to POPLA, the charge will be £100, you can't then go back and pay £20, or even £60. 

If this did progress to court, there would be a considerable amount of research for you to undertake, and any hearing would likely not occur for many months. If it gets to court, it will be around £175 to £200 in play. Whether this goes to court is entirely in UKPC's hands, and they have 6 years in which to make the claim. 

I've tried to lay this out as objectively as possible for you to reach your own decision. I wouldn't pay them a penny as I know that I could beat them in court - but I've had years of experience of dealing with thousands of cases on the forum and know the relevant legal and technical issues intimately.  

If you decide to refuse payment, the forum will try to help you through it all, but your prospects of success largely depends on the effort you are prepared to put into the research to understand all the essential issues - we can't do that for you. 

D_P_Dance

Read this

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2016/11/residential-parking.html

What does your lease/AST say about parking? Does it mention the need to display a permit? then it may take primacy over the self serving TnC of the scammer, and interfere with your lawful right to “quiet enjoyment” of your property, possible an offence under The Landlord and Ten Acts.

Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams, so consider complaining to your MP., it can cause the scammer extra costs and work, and in some cases, cancellation.

Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, many of whom are former clampers, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the enacted

Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/of these Private Parking Companies.

beamerguy

As Umkomaas says above, you either pay a known scammer and fraudster £20 or say NO.
You must question why they have done this because if they were certain of their claim, they wold press on regardless for the full amount.  There is no goodwill involved here, scammers don't do goodwill

I personally would send them an invoice for £20 as your first claim for your costs, giving notice that your costs will escalate if you have to reply to further correspondence from UKPC or others such as debt collectors at a rate of £19 per hour. Suggest they now cancel the charge completely

Fruitcake

If there is nothing in your lease/AST about having to pay a scammer, displaying a permit, their ability to send you a scamvoice or instigate a court claim, then personally I would take this all the way to court.
In that case you should inform the MA or whoever employed the scammers that they will be called as a witness.

Supp chew. Pay a scammer £20 and risk getting another PCN every day you live at this location, or try to stop it now. 

Don't forget to complain to your MP about this unregulated scam.

The_Slithy_Tove

Sudip_124 said:

AST is a standard RLA(residential landlord association) document which has a generic line that the tenant agrees to park at the allocated parking space. Nothing specific.

That's specific enough. You have a contract which gives you the right to park. A third party such as UKPC can't then attempt to offer you another contract to do what you already have the right to do (park). They have nothing to offer you that you don't already have.

D_P_Dance

Read this

https://forums.landlordzone.co.uk/forum/residential-letting-questions/1053920-private-parking-companies

Sudip_124

Thank you for all these links and information. I am really grateful.
After going through all the information and evaluating my options I have decided NOT to pay and NOT to apply to POPLA. Paying would have been easier but then again why would I allow someone to bully me. 
I will simply wait for a legal response

Ralph-y

IMHO appeal to POPLA ..... you might win ...they might decide not to continue.... as it costs them £££

Ralph