PCN - Witness statement advise

BA1987

Hello 
I lost my PCN case and I believe it was totally unfair.The judge knew the advocate and basically gave them everything they wanted. They didn't take any of the evidence into account and they overlooked everything: 

Key elements they overlooked
1) that this case has been thrown out on numerous occasions 
2) that the additional fee of 60 pounds was illegal 
3) the cost fees and the and charges are over the top and are illegal 
4) that the pictures provided by the claimant and the myself showed that there is no lighting in the area
5) that the signage pictures that they seen on the file were 2 years prior to the event
6) the claimant didn't prove that the signage was there on the day or that there was signage in the area
7) that the signage wording was too small and there wasn't the ability to see the information 
8) ignored all the IPC rules of ambient lighting, being able to see in a moving car and the amount being prominent
9) also accessed me of lying and that there was lighting when the pictures from both the claimant and myself was clear that it was pitch black 
10) accessed me or using the internet format and said this case was just a copy and paste job even though i highlighted all the information 
11) said i was lying about the lighting etc the camera cant anything in the picture and said that she be
12) also said that I didnt communicate with the parking firm at all (what was a lie) that is what the claimant said
13) she didnt care that they sent an advocate
and many more

What is the next step to appeal this decision. I believe that the judge was extremely biased. she even refused my appeal on those grounds. She literally didn't read any of the information in the pack. she received it on the day clearly because she had no understanding of the parking rules. She also totally ignored every word. They also highlighted that the 60 thing was overturned in another higher court so they set a new precedent. therefore she through out all the information. then award the claimant for all the cost they they asked for. they didnt even review any of the information or costs they just gave her everything that they wanted. 

Please tell me what is the next steps??? I want to appeal this because i think it is extremely unfair and they try to act like i didn't do enough to check if the signage was there and available. 

Umkomaas

Did we ever get to know which parking firm is involved here?

BA1987

Umkomaas said:

Did we ever get to know which parking firm is involved here?

Parking and property management ltd and BW legal 

Coupon-mad

They also highlighted that the 60 thing was overturned in another higher court so they set a new precedent. 

No it wasn't overturned.  You were ready for that, surely?  We've covered the Semark Jullien case at length since August.

BA1987

Coupon-mad said:

They also highlighted that the 60 thing was overturned in another higher court so they set a new precedent. 

No it wasn't overturned.  You were ready for that, surely?  We've covered the Semark Jullien case at length since August.

the court literally ignored what I said in that area and said the advocate  knew better than me. She highlighted that i am not legally trained. you are better off just sticking to your own details. And i didn't mention the Semark Jullien case regretfully but the judge didnt care for anything that I presented. 

BA1987

Coupon-mad said:

They also highlighted that the 60 thing was overturned in another higher court so they set a new precedent. 

No it wasn't overturned.  You were ready for that, surely?  We've covered the Semark Jullien case at length since August.

Key points i highlighted in my case
1) the picture evidence provided 
2) lighting 
3) signage
4) position of the signage compared to where i entered
5) IPC ruling on - moving vehicle, lighting
6) bervis signage that they used
7) additional cost of the 60 pounds and additional fees 
8) numerous case where it has been thrown out (she stuck up for the advocate and said if its ben overturned in a different case that was higher than the civil court it sets a precedent...then when i tried to highlight some cases she told me dont even bother going down that road and cut me off)
Literally ignored the evidence i provided even though i use mine and the own claimants pictures. she tried o say that in the naked eye I could see better than camera shot with a flash. And on the basis that it is on private land and it is on me to check for signage it was my job to do so. 

what i think is ridiculous and unfair. 

 

Coupon-mad

numerous case where it has been thrown out (she stuck up for the advocate and said if its ben overturned in a different case that was higher than the civil court it sets a precedent...then when i tried to highlight some cases she told me dont even bother going down that road and cut me off).

I was telling you that this WAS the Semark-Jullien case...all that happened was the strike out was overturned.  

Adding £60 was not held to be allowable or not allowable; no decision was made about it. 

So, you should have stopped talking about the 'numerous cases that were struck out' (pointless now) and explained that the Semark-Jullien case did NOT hold that costs could be added.  This is what we've been saying about that case since August. It was a damp squib.

However, I get the impression that you'd have lost, no matter what you said.

BA1987

Coupon-mad said:

numerous case where it has been thrown out (she stuck up for the advocate and said if its ben overturned in a different case that was higher than the civil court it sets a precedent...then when i tried to highlight some cases she told me dont even bother going down that road and cut me off).

I was telling you that this WAS the Semark-Jullien case...all that happened was the strike out was overturned.  7

Adding £60 was not held to be allowable or not allowable; no decision was made about it. 

So, you should have stopped talking about the 'numerous cases that were struck out' (pointless now) and explained that the Semark-Jullien case did NOT hold that costs could be added.  This is what we've been saying about that case since August. It was a damp squib.

However, I get the impression that you'd have lost, no matter what you said.

When trying to highlight the case the judge literally stopped me and said that this isnt the road you wnat to go down. Even tried to sum up that i said i didn't see the sign when i said it wasn't visible not that I couldn't see the sign. She also said that she believes that the signage was there and that i should have gone and see. to the naked eye it was obvious or my headlights would have caught a glimpse of the signage. i have added below what they used as there evidence. they sent in a additional witness statement 2 days before the case. I feel like i was at a losing battle from the case from the start of the case. Even to the point where i highlighted the claimants own picture evidence wasn't clear and couldn't be seen without a flash and even when it was you couldn't read the signage.... they ignored it and said by the naked eye you would be able to see. 

Is there anything else that I can do in this case? 

Coupon-mad

I feel like i was at a losing battle from the case from the start of the case.

I agree.  I wasn't criticising you, I felt for you with a Judge like that.  Maybe she's heard cases about that car park before and has formed an opinion already about those signs and was determined to be consistent. 

I had a Judge like that the other week who (before I even spoke)  pointedly warned me as lay rep ''I know this car park, I have been there often'' which was clearly a shot across the bows - aimed only at me - that he wasn't going to agree with me on the signs.  I'd have lost that case if it hadn't been for the incompetence of DCBLegal sending the Defendant 125 pages by post, but they sent the court around 200 pages by email (late).

The Judge was not happy with them when he realised they'd wrecked their case.  I honestly believe I detected possible disappointment in his voice as he informed them their claim was being dismissed out of hand, due to mucking up the bundle and being late with it, and not sending the same file to the Defendant. 

Like I say, I'd have lost that case if it wasn't for that lucky break and I know that Judge also allowed the fake added costs in a previous hearing where a Defendant represented themselves against the same PPC.  So I'd have really had my work cut out to avoid the fake added costs, too.

Is there anything else that I can do in this case?

It is open to you to pay to apply to appeal but you have to show that the Judge 'erred in law' and most appeals do not get off the ground. 

'Erring in law' is a high bar and she is entitled to come to a conclusion about the signs and her opinion on those can't be an error of law unless she was wholly wrong.  You could appeal about the quantum but what if the higher Judge agrees with her?

BA1987

Coupon-mad said:

I feel like i was at a losing battle from the case from the start of the case.

I agree.  I wasn't criticising you, I felt for you with a Judge like that.  Maybe she's heard cases about that car park before and has formed an opinion already about those signs and was determined to be consistent. 

I had a Judge like that the other week who (before I even spoke)  pointedly warned me as lay rep ''I know this car park, I have been there often'' which was clearly a shot across the bows - aimed only at me - that he wasn't going to agree with me on the signs.  I'd have lost that case if it hadn't been for the incompetence of DCBLegal sending the Defendant 125 pages by post, but they sent the court around 200 pages by email (late).

The Judge was not happy with them when he realised they'd wrecked their case.  I honestly believe I detected possible disappointment in his voice as he informed them their claim was being dismissed out of hand, due to mucking up the bundle and being late with it, and not sending the same file to the Defendant. 

Like I say, I'd have lost that case if it wasn't for that lucky break and I know that Judge also allowed the fake added costs in a previous hearing where a Defendant represented themselves against the same PPC.  So I'd have really had my work cut out to avoid the fake added costs, too.

Is there anything else that I can do in this case?

It is open to you to pay to apply to appeal but you have to show that the Judge 'erred in law' and most appeals do not get off the ground. 

'Erring in law' is a high bar and she is entitled to come to a conclusion about the signs and her opinion on those can't be an error of law unless she was wholly wrong.  You could appeal about the quantum but what if the higher Judge agrees with her?

ok what is the best course of action in your opinion then? just to pay it ? can i not claim against them in any manner for lying or misleading. literally killed me for using the templates that was on the internet site what i think is unfair