Agency won’t furlough

brooke68

My husband has worked continuously for Reed employment agency since October 2018 (paid weekly on an ongoing temporary contract), working at the British Library at Boston Spa for the entirety of this time. 
A few weeks ago, all those employed via the agency were called in to a meeting and told that, from the 1st April, the contract with Reed would end and they would all be automatically transferred over to Pertemps agency to continue their work at the library.
On 17th March staff were told not to come into work on the following days due to the Coronavirus outbreak. The British Library site subsequently closed completely.
My husband has asked Reed to furlough him and they say that they cannot furlough him as the contract was due to end on the 31st. 
I am a teacher currently working full time from home so I think my wage would rule us out of any benefits but we cannot afford to live on my wage alone.
Any advice please?
Thank you!!

Mrsn

If they have said no to furlough then there is very little that can be done about it, it’s optional for them to use.

Please try one of the benefit entitlement calculators such as entitled to or turn2us which will give you an idea of what you or your husband might be eligible for, also might be worth getting in contact with your local council to see if they can help with council tax discounts.

Jeremy535897

Remember that employers don't have to furlough anyone, and agencies are finding the rules particularly problematic.
The first question to ask is whether Pertemps took over the staff from 1 April under TUPE rules. If they did, the guidance to employers says:

"Employee transfers under TUPE and on a change in ownership

A new employer is eligible to claim under the CJRS in respect of the employees of a previous business transferred after 19 March 2020 if either the TUPE or PAYE business succession rules apply to the change in ownership.

Read more guidance on TUPE rules.

Read more guidance on business succession."

If there is no transfer, Reed will be the only employer that can furlough him. The guidance for employers states (for fixed term contracts):

"If your employee is on a fixed term contract

Employees on fixed term contracts can be furloughed. Their contracts can be renewed or extended before their natural conclusion during the furlough period without breaking the terms of the scheme. There is no minimum period which must be left to run on a fixed term contract to enable it to be renewed or extended, but it must not have ended. The furlough period must be for a minimum period of three consecutive weeks. Where a fixed term employee’s contract ends because it is not extended or renewed before its natural conclusion you will no longer be able claim grant for them once the contract ends. Fixed term contracts which ended, without extension or renewal, on or before 19 March 2020 will not qualify for the grant once they have ended."

The guidance for agency workers says:

"Agency Workers (including those employed by umbrella companies)

Where agency workers are paid through PAYE, they are eligible to be furloughed and receive support through this scheme, including where they are employed by umbrella companies.

Furlough should be agreed between the agency, as the deemed employer, and the worker, though it would be advised to discuss the need to furlough with any end clients involved. As with employees, agency workers should perform no work for, through or on behalf of the agency that has furloughed them while they are furloughed, including performing such work through or on behalf of the agency for the agency’s clients.

Where an agency supplies clients with workers who are employed by an umbrella company that operates the PAYE, it will be for the umbrella company and the worker to agree whether to furlough the worker or not."

brooke68

He has already looked into the TUPE situation and it appears Pertemps did take over under TUPE rules but my husband has never been paid by them as the office closed before they’ve took on the contract. Technically he is still on Reed’s books. He hasn’t received a P45 from them.

Jeremy535897

I think all he can do is ask Reed to reconsider, and approach Pertemps for their view, but agencies generally are very reluctant to use the furlough scheme because they fear being out of pocket.

brooke68

I was under the impression that the scheme bore no cost to employers. Have I got this wrong?

brooke68

I work for a supply teaching agency and they have been very upfront in approaching teachers to tell them that they are eligible for furlough, with no need for staff to ask for it. Pertemps appear to be doing the same to staff already working for them.

Semple

brooke68 said:

I was under the impression that the scheme bore no cost to employers. Have I got this wrong?

You're correct, but companies have been weary of the scheme because they have to pay salaries out of their own money and then claim it back. If they have little to no cashflow available, then most are hesitant about using the scheme. 

Now the scheme is open, I'm not sure if that would change things. But my understanding is that the scheme requires proof that the company has paid the wages of the employee in order for them to make a claim. 

gary83

The worker whilst furloughed still accrues holiday at the same rate as before, this could be a cost at the end of the scheme.

Jeremy535897

Some of the costs are real, some can be avoided. The first cost is the perceived cash flow issue, that the agency has to pay the money out as wages before recovering it from the government. If they claim on time, or defer payments to employees, they can avoid this.
The second cost is if they get it wrong somehow and don't get reimbursed. That can be mitigated in part by a clause in the contract that allows them to recover the money from those who were paid. Nice in theory, a nightmare in practice.
The third cost is the fees etc they feel they will need to pay to get advice on drawing up agreements, and the administration of implementing those agreements,running payroll and claiming the grant.

sliphi

brooke68 said:

My husband has worked continuously for Reed employment agency since October 2018 (paid weekly on an ongoing temporary contract), working at the British Library at Boston Spa for the entirety of this time. 
A few weeks ago, all those employed via the agency were called in to a meeting and told that, from the 1st April, the contract with Reed would end and they would all be automatically transferred over to Pertemps agency to continue their work at the library.
On 17th March staff were told not to come into work on the following days due to the Coronavirus outbreak. The British Library site subsequently closed completely.
My husband has asked Reed to furlough him and they say that they cannot furlough him as the contract was due to end on the 31st. 
I am a teacher currently working full time from home so I think my wage would rule us out of any benefits but we cannot afford to live on my wage alone.
Any advice please?
Thank you!!

brooke68 said:

He has already looked into the TUPE situation and it appears Pertemps did take over under TUPE rules but my husband has never been paid by them as the office closed before they’ve took on the contract. Technically he is still on Reed’s books. He hasn’t received a P45 from them.

brooke68 said:

I was under the impression that the scheme bore no cost to employers. Have I got this wrong?

brooke68 said:

I work for a supply teaching agency and they have been very upfront in approaching teachers to tell them that they are eligible for furlough, with no need for staff to ask for it. Pertemps appear to be doing the same to staff already working for them.

Was there any particular area of advice you were seeking to clarify?