COMPLEX car insurance issue where i drove uninsured without knowing it and crashed

Anonymous123456

I, hope your all well. 

I find myself in an issue which I need help to resolve. please have a brief read of my story and get back to me if possible. 

About 4 years ago I took my fathers vehicle (assuming I had 3rd party cover) and managed to crash into someone from behind, I gave my details to the guy. once I went home and read the fine print on my insurance I realised that I was not insured to drive. the guy I hit into claimed against my fathers insurance company.

My fathers insurance provider then paid out to third party which left them chasing me and my father for the money they paid out. The money paid out from the insurance provider was in excess of 13k and will go up with interest as I have been told. 

I have received court papers and a checklist requiring me to hand in various amounts of info/evidence/witness statements, Till date I have handled all paperwork and deadlines on my own and attended a trial for this case too. (This case has been going on for about 2 years now). The outcome of that trial resulted in the judge not accepting the insurance company’s claim against me and my father as they had no judgement against my father as he was first defendant and for this reason they couldn’t possibly pursue action against me (2nd defendant). (Not sure how that works myself) 

Anyways the judge instructed the claimant to file a new or amend the current claim which they have and the scenario now is that I must submit a defence statement by the next due date.  (I asked for a extension on the defence statement deadline already before due to not being able to find representation, this was granted and I was granted that extension towards the end of February 2020) and ever since then covid 19 really kicked off here which resulted in everything being shut so I’m stuck with no help at all. so iv sent another letter to the courts asking for another extension on the permission to file another defence.

My father is NOT responsible nor will he take responsibility for this as I drove the vehicle assuming I was covered to drive the car on my own insurance. it was only after the incident I realised where I messed up. 

The company is threatening to use bankruptcy against me n my father. Which is very distressing to think about. 

I can’t really afford legal help and I do qualify for legal aid I’m sure but unfortunately legal aid is not available for insurance cases like this I was told!?!. 

I’m in a total mess, I have been dragging myself back and forward for months in search for a representative that can help me settle this once and for all. If there’s anyone on here that can help me settle this claim or advice what the best thing to do is - or if someone who specialises in this is willing to take on this case on I’d be even willing to pay something - or if you could recommend a specialist who deals with this? 

Thank you all in advance!

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MovingForwards

What was the due date of the defence extension? Highly unlikely you will get a further extension based on your reasons posted here.

You and your dad are at risk of having the solicitors request judgment in default against you and your dad, due to you failing to file a defence. This will increase the costs further.
The solicitors have already given you time to agree a payment plan, they will only hold off for so long before requesting the judgment.

By the solicitors obtaining a judgement against you / your dad, the next step if you fail to settle it or come to a payment arrangement will be to commence enforcement of the judgment, again this increases the costs.

What are you trying to defend?
You admit you didn't have insurance, confirm your dad's insurance company paid the third party claim, your dad's insurance company are entitled to pursue your dad as the insured and you as the driver, it's in the T&C's of insurance policies.
If you file a defence that doesn't have any merit, the solicitors will apply to strike it out and request judgment, the court (judge) could also strike it out off their own back.

Any litigation lawyer who deals with RTAs would be able to help, but it's not cheap. 

Legal Aid was cut back years ago. You want legal help, unfortunately you have to pay for it.

Your best bet is send over income and expenditure details to the solicitors, with an offer to pay by instalments to clear the debt if you do not have the money to do it in one go.

Sorry this isn't what you want to hear, but save yourself extra time and expense, no decent lawyer will say you have a chance of winning this.

TonyMMM

Nothing you have said suggests you have a defence, what are you thinking of filing ?

Jumblebumble

MovingForwards said:

What was the due date of the defence extension? Highly unlikely you will get a further extension based on your reasons posted here.

You and your dad are at risk of having the solicitors request judgment in default against you and your dad, due to you failing to file a defence. This will increase the costs further.
The solicitors have already given you time to agree a payment plan, they will only hold off for so long before requesting the judgment.

By the solicitors obtaining a judgement against you / your dad, the next step if you fail to settle it or come to a payment arrangement will be to commence enforcement of the judgment, again this increases the costs.

What are you trying to defend?
You admit you didn't have insurance, confirm your dad's insurance company paid the third party claim, your dad's insurance company are entitled to pursue your dad as the insured and you as the driver, it's in the T&C's of insurance policies.
If you file a defence that doesn't have any merit, the solicitors will apply to strike it out and request judgment, the court (judge) could also strike it out off their own back.

Any litigation lawyer who deals with RTAs would be able to help, but it's not cheap. 

Legal Aid was cut back years ago. You want legal help, unfortunately you have to pay for it.

Your best bet is send over income and expenditure details to the solicitors, with an offer to pay by instalments to clear the debt if you do not have the money to do it in one go.

Sorry this isn't what you want to hear, but save yourself extra time and expense, no decent lawyer will say you have a chance of winning this.

  I would add that there is nothing to stop you attempting to negotiate  the amount demanded. The solicitors may prefer a bird in hand although I don't think the judge did you any favours by dismissing the case previously

MovingForwards

The only time they will negotiate is after receiving instalments for quite a while, then it would still be a percentage of the outstanding amount and only usually when there is a small instalment, someone unemployed / not working / no prospect of working ever again / on benefits / low paid job with very very limited spare money and the fact it would take about 100 years to clear the debt due to the low instalments.

OPs issue is he wants his dad kept out of this, however he (OP) hasn't done enough to allow the solicitors to consider it and therefore they will continue against both of them.

dacouch

Try the Bankruptcy and Living with it part of the forum, I'm not saying you will be bankrupted but there will be people on there with the knowledge of cases such as yours which is basically negotiating how much you can afford to pay

Anonymous123456

Thank you for your replies. 

My defence was basically me stating that I relied upon my insurance as I thought I was covered at that point, of course I made a mistake and it’s not as if I’m not agreeing to paying the solicitors. They have just refused the offers I have sent as they are very firm on their valuation of how much I owe. 

Another thing I don’t understand is when the issue happened the actual insurance firm sent a letter to us stating that me and my father would EACH need to sign a consent form so they (insurance) settle the matter and come back to us to recover the costs from us once paid out. However we do not recall them sending us anything and nothing has been brought forward as evidence suggesting otherwise? So that is another point I was relying on. 

Another thing i was told is I must apply to remove my father from the proceedings are he is innocent in this case. Of course i am aware that this procedure also will not be easy. 

MovingForwards

They will stand firm as the insurance company will have engineer report, repair invoices etc to support every single nut / bolt, body panel, replacement parts, paint etc (if it was repaired), or the engineer report stating what the vehicle was worth prior to the accident (if it was written off), plus all the other things they have paid out for.

Your defence is not a defence, it's down to each driver to check the policy to make sure they are covered for whatever vehicle they are about to step into.

Did you ever ask them for evidence of what was paid out? It's now at litigation (court proceedings) stage and the evidence will be provided during the course of the proceedings eg 14 days or whatever before the hearing. 

You are clutching at straws, I'm expecting you to say you have received a default judgment through the post soon, this will be because you have failed to file your defence when the extension was granted and the solicitors have requested judgement in default.

Anonymous123456

Yes, they have issued a schedule of loss to us, which shows how much they paid out and to who. 

And in regards to the default judgement I’m not too sure because like  I said in my first post, the stage I’m at now is that I have permission to file amended documents, That goes for defence onwards. 
so doesn’t that also mean that the previous documents I submitted (defence witness statement etc) will be processed and put infront of the judge as I haven’t amended anything? 

Just a thought - I may be wrong. 

Can I create a defence out of what I’ve said so far? This has been a very stressful situation to deal with 2 years and counting not knowing what’s going to happen - the solicitors are greedy they don’t have sympathy for people who struggle to pay at once. 

MovingForwards

You were granted an extension, you said you were asking for a further extension.  If the date of the original extension has gone, you missed the boat. 
This is a fast track case, due to the claimed cost, judges are not lenient like they are with small claims cases.
Therefore if you have missed your date, the solicitors can apply for judgement.
Do you want to say when your defence was / is due, based on the extension you were granted?

At each stage the papers are handed to the judge to review. If something hasn't been complied with, the judge doesn't have to give extra time to comply with it. 
You miss a deadline and the solicitors can apply for judgement.

A defence is an outline as to why you are defending the claim, if there isn't sufficient reasons to defend the case the solicitors will apply to the court to have your defence disregarded, if the judge agrees to that, the solicitors can apply for judgement. 
As I said in another post, if the judge thinks your defence is worthless as there is no defence to what happened, they can reject your defence and the solicitors can apply for judgement.

Litigation is a process driven court procedure, with fast track cases there is a set procedure, fall at any step and the solicitors can apply for judgement.

I've already said my views on your proposed defence and said it isn't one.

As well as the above, fast track cases are very expensive to lose, it's not fixed solicitors costs but based on the time they have spent on the case. I don't know what the current hourly rate is, as this varies depending on experience / qualifications.
Every letter sent / received and reviewed, 
Every telephone call,
Every court document,
Every time the file was reviewed, research done about case law to support the case they are doing,
If a partner reviews the case, that's even more expensive.
All of the above time is added up, multiplied by their hourly charging rate (or part hourly rate with letters / emails / phone calls) = the amount which gets added on when they request judgment or win the case. 
This is not cheap, think of it in thousands, not hundreds.

On top of the insurance company's losses and the solicitors costs, each court form costs too and there is interest at 8%.

The solicitors are not being greedy, they are doing their job and following the procedure required.
They will accept instalments, but you will still get a CCJ, as this protects their client (insurance company) and secures further options of enforcing the judgment if you fail to keep up the instalments.

You are only delaying what is going to happen, to both you and your dad, the solicitors costs are only going up, the court fees keep getting added on, the interest increases on a daily basis.

Read through all of these posts carefully, then re-read my first one.  

FlameCloud

Anonymous123456 said:

Yes, they have issued a schedule of loss to us, which shows how much they paid out and to who. 

And in regards to the default judgement I’m not too sure because like  I said in my first post, the stage I’m at now is that I have permission to file amended documents, That goes for defence onwards. 
so doesn’t that also mean that the previous documents I submitted (defence witness statement etc) will be processed and put infront of the judge as I haven’t amended anything? 

Just a thought - I may be wrong. 

Can I create a defence out of what I’ve said so far? This has been a very stressful situation to deal with 2 years and counting not knowing what’s going to happen - the solicitors are greedy they don’t have sympathy for people who struggle to pay at once. 

I can’t see anything you have said would amount a defence. Ignoring the fact that no insurance is a strict liability offence, it is you who failed to ensure you were covered.