Issue with Hughes not being able to collect TV due to Covid - I should be entitled still to refund?

Spank

kineticmix you keep insisting that Hugues are stopping the return, but in your OP you acknowledge that its the courier & out of their hands. Just wait or arrange your own courier & claim back the money afterwards.

[Deleted User]

unholyangel said:

I know there are some on the board who think there is too much risk with collections, but personally I don't see any risk with collections that isn't there for delivery. During delivery, it would've been handled by several people (potentially dozens) from all different households who have been regularly coming into contact with other people outside their home. 

The cynic in me thinks it's because deliveries are more likely to garner profit (in the sale), while collections are more likely to reduce profit, at a time many retailers are struggling and furloughing staff. 

The fact remains that uplifting such returns during the lockdown is not happening in most cases.

 It may well be that there is no more risk in uplifting than delivering, but there is certainly more customer contact with an uplift.

 A delivery can be left on the doorstep, it certainly wouldn't be so simple with a collection. 

You also mention you think it  may be more   profit protection than a duty of care for their staff, but have you also considered that there just may not be enough staff actually at work to clear the backlog of deliveries let alone any collections? 

The truth probably lies somewhere between the above scenarios, especially as it's the carrier refusing to collect rather than directly the retailer. 

However, that still leaves the customer with no collection and so no refund any time soon even if he commences legal action...

[Deleted User]

Spank said: Just wait or arrange your own courier & claim back the money afterwards.

That's if a carrier can actually be sourced who will collect and deliver the TV, of course.

 Aren't there insurance issues with freight of televisions?  

kineticmix

Spank said:

kineticmix you keep insisting that Hugues are stopping the return, but in your OP you acknowledge that its the courier & out of their hands. Just wait or arrange your own courier & claim back the money afterwards.

Well its Hughes who I am dealing with, I am not dealing with the courier company. Its them that are having issues with there  courier company, so that falls under them to rectify.

It may be a difficult situation, however I feel that any online companies should be completely transparent at this time with customers who are ordering goods and may need to return them for whatever reason.

If I had of been notified before purchase that there may have been an issue with return I wouldn't have ordered the TV in the first place, then that would have came into my purchase decision but that was not made clear when I placed the order. Hence why I am saying about complete transparency. Hughes do have a dedicated page for Corona and there is zero mention about any issue with refunds.

Again I don't see any real difference either between delivering something and collecting it again. If the delivery companies can deliver a product to a front door step, then I don't see any issue with them collecting an item again if its left at a front door step. There is no human interaction the same as with the initial delivery.
I am hoping that PayPal look at this as I raised the case with them, I feel I have done everything correctly as a customer and I should not be left out of pocket.

unholyangel

Moneyineptitude said:

unholyangel said:

I know there are some on the board who think there is too much risk with collections, but personally I don't see any risk with collections that isn't there for delivery. During delivery, it would've been handled by several people (potentially dozens) from all different households who have been regularly coming into contact with other people outside their home. 

The cynic in me thinks it's because deliveries are more likely to garner profit (in the sale), while collections are more likely to reduce profit, at a time many retailers are struggling and furloughing staff. 

The fact remains that uplifting such returns during the lockdown is not happening in most cases.

 It may well be that there is no more risk in uplifting than delivering, but there is certainly more customer contact with an uplift.

 A delivery can be left on the doorstep, it certainly wouldn't be so simple with a collection. 

You also mention you think it  may be more   profit protection than a duty of care for their staff, but have you also considered that there just may not be enough staff actually at work to clear the backlog of deliveries let alone any collections? 

The truth probably lies somewhere between the above scenarios, especially as it's the carrier refusing to collect rather than directly the retailer. 

However, that still leaves the customer with no collection and so no refund any time soon even if he commences legal action...

I considered the staffing issue - those businesses still running have still been impacted with staff shortages which can make covering the same demand difficult, never mind those experiencing increased demand. But that only really covers existing demand - not new demand. In other words, why are new deliveries being prioritised over new collections. 

Collections for couriers are generally not as profitable and more as a selling point to it's customers and worked in to existing delivery routes to keep the cost low. Doesn't have to be any physical contact - can still maintain social distancing. Likewise the retailer can't disclaim liability purely because they decided to use a third party to perform their contractual obligations. 

What I will say is that covid has certainly highlighted a lot of issues that have always been there, but never been significant enough to be a real problem for most. 

DoaM

Moneyineptitude said:.

 It may well be that there is no more risk in uplifting than delivering, but there is certainly more customer contact with an uplift.

Is there? I'm struggling to see how.

Delivery: Courier leaves the parcel on the doorstep, rings doorbell and steps back. Customer opens the door, delivery guy updates the delivery status, customer takes parcel into the house.
Collection: Delivery guy rings doorbell and steps back. Customer puts the parcel on the doorstep and steps back. Delvery guy updates the collection status, picks up the parcel and takes it to the van.

Where's the additional customer contact?

[Deleted User]

DoaM said:

Where's the additional customer contact?

I was thinking along the lines of the delivery personnel checking the packaging and item  before accepting it for collection. An uplift in the manner you describe would be wide open to abuse... 

davidmcn

Moneyineptitude said:

DoaM said:

Where's the additional customer contact?

I was thinking along the lines of the delivery personnel checking the packaging and item  before accepting it for collection.

Do they do that? I'd have thought the average courier would want to grab the item and get back in their van, rather than stand around while you show them the item and then (re)package it.

DoaM

davidmcn said:

Moneyineptitude said:

DoaM said:

Where's the additional customer contact?

I was thinking along the lines of the delivery personnel checking the packaging and item  before accepting it for collection.

Do they do that? I'd have thought the average courier would want to grab the item and get back in their van, rather than stand around while you show them the item and then (re)package it.

That's my thought too. Couriers are generally paid per-package so they tend to spend as little time as possible at the collection and delivery points.

Al_Ross

kineticmix said:

Spank said:

kineticmix you keep insisting that Hugues are stopping the return, but in your OP you acknowledge that its the courier & out of their hands. Just wait or arrange your own courier & claim back the money afterwards.

Well its Hughes who I am dealing with, I am not dealing with the courier company. Its them that are having issues with there  courier company, so that falls under them to rectify.

It may be a difficult situation, however I feel that any online companies should be completely transparent at this time with customers who are ordering goods and may need to return them for whatever reason.

If I had of been notified before purchase that there may have been an issue with return I wouldn't have ordered the TV in the first place, then that would have came into my purchase decision but that was not made clear when I placed the order. Hence why I am saying about complete transparency. Hughes do have a dedicated page for Corona and there is zero mention about any issue with refunds.

Again I don't see any real difference either between delivering something and collecting it again. If the delivery companies can deliver a product to a front door step, then I don't see any issue with them collecting an item again if its left at a front door step. There is no human interaction the same as with the initial delivery.
I am hoping that PayPal look at this as I raised the case with them, I feel I have done everything correctly as a customer and I should not be left out of pocket.

I am pretty much in agreement with your views here.

No company wants to be handing out refunds in this current climate.

A big message is clear here for all, do not make any big purchases from any on line supplier just now, just in case there is a problem and it needs to be returned.

Also, Kineticmix are your aware Hughes will charge you £50 to return your TV, as per their website anyway.