Issue with Hughes not being able to collect TV due to Covid - I should be entitled still to refund?

Socajam

kineticmix said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

kineticmix said:

born_again said:

So you ordered a TV, then found another better/cheaper one. Yet still took delivery of the one you did not want?
Why not cancel the order before they delivered, or ask the courier that it is not required and to take it back...

Yes that is correct, I seen a better deal on a better TV, which was found the day before the original TV was delivered.
Is there an issue with that?

I think the point being made was why didn't you simply turn the courier around the next day, asking him to take the TV back?  By accepting delivery, you've put yourself in this tricky position where you are obliged to store the TV until Hughes are able to collect it, and can't have a refund until that happens.

That's a fair statement to make. But if Hughes had of stated on there website that returns may possibly not happen due to Covid, then I would not have ordered the TV.

I believe Hughes have a responsibility to keep there customers fully up to date, if there normal operating procedures may be affected by Covid for returns as well as orders. So if returns are being affected, then why have they not updated there website to address this?

I think you should read the first paragraph of your statement and ask yourself if it makes sense - because to me it does not.
The second paragraph you may have a point - but so should you.
We all were fully aware that the virus was happening - some of us put on our thinking caps, whilst others thought it would be business as normal. 

kineticmix

Aylesbury_Duck said:

kineticmix said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

kineticmix said:

born_again said:

So you ordered a TV, then found another better/cheaper one. Yet still took delivery of the one you did not want?
Why not cancel the order before they delivered, or ask the courier that it is not required and to take it back...

Yes that is correct, I seen a better deal on a better TV, which was found the day before the original TV was delivered.
Is there an issue with that?

I think the point being made was why didn't you simply turn the courier around the next day, asking him to take the TV back?  By accepting delivery, you've put yourself in this tricky position where you are obliged to store the TV until Hughes are able to collect it, and can't have a refund until that happens.

That's a fair statement to make. But if Hughes had of stated on there website that returns may possibly not happen due to Covid, then I would not have ordered the TV.

I believe Hughes have a responsibility to keep there customers fully up to date, if there normal operating procedures may be affected by Covid for returns as well as orders. So if returns are being affected, then why have they not updated there website to address this?

I think you need to be a little more forgiving.  I've no idea how big Hughes are or what their working practices are but I suspect they've been sideswiped by the virus as most businesses have been and are more concerned with ensuring their business survives than they are about updating their website for fickle customers.  Many businesses closed operations down extremely quickly once government advice changed.  They didn't get weeks of notice.

I think you also have to acknowledge that you haven't really played by the spirit of the rules, either.  Placing an order, then one day before it arrives, buying from elsewhere and cancelling the first order has hardly helped the situation.  As much as you think Hughes should have acted with the virus in mind, they might level the same accusation at you.  You did all that in the middle of a pandemic when normal businesses have all but closed.

Updating their website for "Fickle" customers lol They have an existing webpage for Corona updates which I am sure you can locate if you went onto there website, where there is ZERO verbiage around "Returns" possibly not able to happen and customers being left out of pocket.

Do you think with everything that is going on, that is good business practice? Are Hughes being completely transparent with there customers? In my view they are not, they seem happy to take your money right now.

Me purchasing a different TV from somewhere else for cheaper is normal customer behaviour. Again if there was going to be a problem with me returning the TV, then this should have been made available for me before I purchased it in the first place.

There maybe needs to be more thought given on customers in these TOUGH FINANCIAL times as well, who cannot afford to be out of pocket either.

Socajam

kineticmix said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

kineticmix said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

kineticmix said:

born_again said:

So you ordered a TV, then found another better/cheaper one. Yet still took delivery of the one you did not want?
Why not cancel the order before they delivered, or ask the courier that it is not required and to take it back...

Yes that is correct, I seen a better deal on a better TV, which was found the day before the original TV was delivered.
Is there an issue with that?

I think the point being made was why didn't you simply turn the courier around the next day, asking him to take the TV back?  By accepting delivery, you've put yourself in this tricky position where you are obliged to store the TV until Hughes are able to collect it, and can't have a refund until that happens.

That's a fair statement to make. But if Hughes had of stated on there website that returns may possibly not happen due to Covid, then I would not have ordered the TV.

I believe Hughes have a responsibility to keep there customers fully up to date, if there normal operating procedures may be affected by Covid for returns as well as orders. So if returns are being affected, then why have they not updated there website to address this?

I think you need to be a little more forgiving.  I've no idea how big Hughes are or what their working practices are but I suspect they've been sideswiped by the virus as most businesses have been and are more concerned with ensuring their business survives than they are about updating their website for fickle customers.  Many businesses closed operations down extremely quickly once government advice changed.  They didn't get weeks of notice.

I think you also have to acknowledge that you haven't really played by the spirit of the rules, either.  Placing an order, then one day before it arrives, buying from elsewhere and cancelling the first order has hardly helped the situation.  As much as you think Hughes should have acted with the virus in mind, they might level the same accusation at you.  You did all that in the middle of a pandemic when normal businesses have all but closed.

Updating their website for "Fickle" customers lol They have an existing webpage for Corona updates which I am sure you can locate if you went onto there website, where there is ZERO verbiage around "Returns" possibly not able to happen and customers being left out of pocket.

Do you think with everything that is going on, that is good business practice? Are Hughes being completely transparent with there customers? In my view they are not, they seem happy to take your money right now.

Me purchasing a different TV from somewhere else for cheaper is normal customer behaviour. Again if there was going to be a problem with me returning the TV, then this should have been made available for me before I purchased it in the first place.

There maybe needs to be more thought given on customers in these TOUGH FINANCIAL times as well, who cannot afford to be out of pocket either.

Being out out pocket in more on the customer -
Because the customer(s) need to put on their thinking caps and realise that we are living through exceptional times
Unless you have zero TV or it's gone bad, it does not make sense to be spending money on a "want" unless it's a "need".
Unless you know something different, none of us are aware that our job will be waiting for us when this pandemic is over - hence the need to look at the future with survival skills in mind, conserving our cash.

unholyangel

From the Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation & Additional Charges) Regulations 2013:

(4) Reimbursement must be without undue delay, and in any event not later than the time specified in paragraph (5) or (6).

(5) If the contract is a sales contract and the trader has not offered to collect the goods, the time is the end of 14 days after—
(a)the day on which the trader receives the goods back, or
(b)if earlier, the day on which the consumer supplies evidence of having sent the goods back.

(6) Otherwise, the time is the end of 14 days after the day on which the trader is informed of the consumer’s decision to withdraw the offer or cancel the contract, in accordance with regulation 44.

So as they have offered to collect the goods, they have 14 days to refund you - starting the day after you informed them of your intent to cancel. 

While I would be more forgiving personally in the circumstances, ultimately "the law is the law" and government have not made any provision which would alter the law and allow retailers any leeway for the current situation. 

kineticmix

unholyangel said:

From the Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation & Additional Charges) Regulations 2013:

(4) Reimbursement must be without undue delay, and in any event not later than the time specified in paragraph (5) or (6).

(5) If the contract is a sales contract and the trader has not offered to collect the goods, the time is the end of 14 days after—
(a)the day on which the trader receives the goods back, or
(b)if earlier, the day on which the consumer supplies evidence of having sent the goods back.

(6) Otherwise, the time is the end of 14 days after the day on which the trader is informed of the consumer’s decision to withdraw the offer or cancel the contract, in accordance with regulation 44.

So as they have offered to collect the goods, they have 14 days to refund you - starting the day after you informed them of your intent to cancel. 

While I would be more forgiving personally in the circumstances, ultimately "the law is the law" and government have not made any provision which would alter the law and allow retailers any leeway for the current situation. 

Hi unholyangel, thank you for the constructive feedback. So this law still applies and has not been superseded by any new legislation?

Aylesbury_Duck

kineticmix said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

kineticmix said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

kineticmix said:

born_again said:

So you ordered a TV, then found another better/cheaper one. Yet still took delivery of the one you did not want?
Why not cancel the order before they delivered, or ask the courier that it is not required and to take it back...

Yes that is correct, I seen a better deal on a better TV, which was found the day before the original TV was delivered.
Is there an issue with that?

I think the point being made was why didn't you simply turn the courier around the next day, asking him to take the TV back?  By accepting delivery, you've put yourself in this tricky position where you are obliged to store the TV until Hughes are able to collect it, and can't have a refund until that happens.

That's a fair statement to make. But if Hughes had of stated on there website that returns may possibly not happen due to Covid, then I would not have ordered the TV.

I believe Hughes have a responsibility to keep there customers fully up to date, if there normal operating procedures may be affected by Covid for returns as well as orders. So if returns are being affected, then why have they not updated there website to address this?

I think you need to be a little more forgiving.  I've no idea how big Hughes are or what their working practices are but I suspect they've been sideswiped by the virus as most businesses have been and are more concerned with ensuring their business survives than they are about updating their website for fickle customers.  Many businesses closed operations down extremely quickly once government advice changed.  They didn't get weeks of notice.

I think you also have to acknowledge that you haven't really played by the spirit of the rules, either.  Placing an order, then one day before it arrives, buying from elsewhere and cancelling the first order has hardly helped the situation.  As much as you think Hughes should have acted with the virus in mind, they might level the same accusation at you.  You did all that in the middle of a pandemic when normal businesses have all but closed.

Updating their website for "Fickle" customers lol They have an existing webpage for Corona updates which I am sure you can locate if you went onto there website, where there is ZERO verbiage around "Returns" possibly not able to happen and customers being left out of pocket.

Do you think with everything that is going on, that is good business practice? Are Hughes being completely transparent with there customers? In my view they are not, they seem happy to take your money right now.

Me purchasing a different TV from somewhere else for cheaper is normal customer behaviour. Again if there was going to be a problem with me returning the TV, then this should have been made available for me before I purchased it in the first place.

There maybe needs to be more thought given on customers in these TOUGH FINANCIAL times as well, who cannot afford to be out of pocket either.

I'm not going to bother researching their website, thank you.  I don't have a problem with my TV.  Or two of them.

Yes, we are in tough financial times, yet you saw fit to buy two televisions and put yourself "out of pocket".  You did so voluntarily, remember?

[Deleted User]

unholyangel said:

So as they have offered to collect the goods, they have 14 days to refund you - starting the day after you informed them of your intent to cancel. 

While I would be more forgiving personally in the circumstances, ultimately "the law is the law" and government have not made any provision which would alter the law and allow retailers any leeway for the current situation. 

While you've quoted the letter of the law, I can't see any refund being received until the item has first been uplifted and I can't see that happening during the current lockdown. 

The OP can of course threaten or instigate  court action to recover the money, but by the time such court action took place the item will very likely have been collected anyway!

So a bit "Catch22" for  the OP.... 

Aylesbury_Duck

kineticmix said:

unholyangel said:

From the Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation & Additional Charges) Regulations 2013:

(4) Reimbursement must be without undue delay, and in any event not later than the time specified in paragraph (5) or (6).

(5) If the contract is a sales contract and the trader has not offered to collect the goods, the time is the end of 14 days after—
(a)the day on which the trader receives the goods back, or
(b)if earlier, the day on which the consumer supplies evidence of having sent the goods back.

(6) Otherwise, the time is the end of 14 days after the day on which the trader is informed of the consumer’s decision to withdraw the offer or cancel the contract, in accordance with regulation 44.

So as they have offered to collect the goods, they have 14 days to refund you - starting the day after you informed them of your intent to cancel. 

While I would be more forgiving personally in the circumstances, ultimately "the law is the law" and government have not made any provision which would alter the law and allow retailers any leeway for the current situation. 

Hi unholyangel, thank you for the constructive feedback. So this law still applies and has not been superseded by any new legislation?

unholyangel is probably the most knowledgeable poster on here, so I'm sure their advice is correct.

What you do with it, however, is the next question.  Letter before action if they don't refund within 14 days?  Then small claims action if necessary?  By the time that process has been gone through Hughes will probably have collected and refunded anyway, so you're back to patience again.

Still, you've got two new TVs to watch to pass the time! 

powerful_Rogue

Aylesbury_Duck said:

kineticmix said:

unholyangel said:

From the Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation & Additional Charges) Regulations 2013:

(4) Reimbursement must be without undue delay, and in any event not later than the time specified in paragraph (5) or (6).

(5) If the contract is a sales contract and the trader has not offered to collect the goods, the time is the end of 14 days after—
(a)the day on which the trader receives the goods back, or
(b)if earlier, the day on which the consumer supplies evidence of having sent the goods back.

(6) Otherwise, the time is the end of 14 days after the day on which the trader is informed of the consumer’s decision to withdraw the offer or cancel the contract, in accordance with regulation 44.

So as they have offered to collect the goods, they have 14 days to refund you - starting the day after you informed them of your intent to cancel. 

While I would be more forgiving personally in the circumstances, ultimately "the law is the law" and government have not made any provision which would alter the law and allow retailers any leeway for the current situation. 

Hi unholyangel, thank you for the constructive feedback. So this law still applies and has not been superseded by any new legislation?

unholyangel is probably the most knowledgeable poster on here, so I'm sure their advice is correct.

What you do with it, however, is the next question.  Letter before action if they don't refund within 14 days?  Then small claims action if necessary?  By the time that process has been gone through Hughes will probably have collected and refunded anyway, so you're back to patience again.

Still, you've got two new TVs to watch to pass the time! 

Plus i'm not sure the judge would look to favourably on the claim either!

unholyangel

kineticmix said:

unholyangel said:

From the Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation & Additional Charges) Regulations 2013:

(4) Reimbursement must be without undue delay, and in any event not later than the time specified in paragraph (5) or (6).

(5) If the contract is a sales contract and the trader has not offered to collect the goods, the time is the end of 14 days after—
(a)the day on which the trader receives the goods back, or
(b)if earlier, the day on which the consumer supplies evidence of having sent the goods back.

(6) Otherwise, the time is the end of 14 days after the day on which the trader is informed of the consumer’s decision to withdraw the offer or cancel the contract, in accordance with regulation 44.

So as they have offered to collect the goods, they have 14 days to refund you - starting the day after you informed them of your intent to cancel. 

While I would be more forgiving personally in the circumstances, ultimately "the law is the law" and government have not made any provision which would alter the law and allow retailers any leeway for the current situation. 

Hi unholyangel, thank you for the constructive feedback. So this law still applies and has not been superseded by any new legislation?

Moneyineptitude said:

unholyangel said:

So as they have offered to collect the goods, they have 14 days to refund you - starting the day after you informed them of your intent to cancel. 

While I would be more forgiving personally in the circumstances, ultimately "the law is the law" and government have not made any provision which would alter the law and allow retailers any leeway for the current situation. 

While you've quoted the letter of the law, I can't see any refund being received until the item has first been uplifted and I can't see that happening during the current lockdown. 

The OP can of course threaten or instigate  court action to recover the money, but by the time such court action took place the item will very likely have been collected anyway!

So a bit "Catch22" for  the OP.... 

I'm replying to both of you here as it's a catch all response. But I did say I personally would be more forgiving in the circumstances, just pointing out that by the letter of the law (as you put it, MoneyIneptitude ), the retailer should be refunding. 

I know there are some on the board who think there is too much risk with collections, but personally I don't see any risk with collections that isn't there for delivery. During delivery, it would've been handled by several people (potentially dozens) from all different households who have been regularly coming into contact with other people outside their home. 

The cynic in me thinks it's because deliveries are more likely to garner profit (in the sale), while collections are more likely to reduce profit, at a time many retailers are struggling and furloughing staff.