PCN from Horizon parking for an overstay in a free Tesco carpark.

late_white_rabbit

Hello,

I've read a fair amount on this site, but I find all the information rather overwhelming and I cannot take everything in, as I suffer from dyslexia and autism. I will use the template letter and expand upon it. I don't know if there is much for you to suggest at this stage. The RK has received a PCN from Horizon parking for overstaying the permitted time limit in a free Tesco carpark. The driver was shopping in Tesco and did not go anywhere else while the car was parked in the Tesco carpark, and there are receipts (I use the plural not singular), and a bank statement that prove this. 

The PCN date of issue is the 14th day after the date of stay in the carpark, I have read that the issue date needs to be within 14 days for it to be valid (or similar words to that effect). Unless anyone writes any different, I will assume that the 14th day is included within the 14 days. I hope that makes sense.

The time frame between the date of issue and the RK receiving the PCN is just over a week and a half. Due to this, combined with being ill with symptoms of covid 19, paying the reduced £20.00 fee has not been possible to do within 14 days from the date of issue. In my opinion the 14 days should start from when the RK receives the PCN. Due to covid 19, mail is understandably taking longer to arrive, and Horizon Parking are not taking this into consideration, nor are they nor Tesco adopting a common sense approach.

In this current covid 19 climate, government legislation dictates that we should only leave our home extremely limited reasons, such as for essential shopping, such as food, and to do so "AS INFREQUENTLY AS POSSIBLE". When someone is doing their food shopping once a fortnight instead of once a week, it is going to take longer to do the food shopping compared to a weekly food shop, that is obvious.

When comparing the local Tesco and Horizon to a different local supermarket, the other supermarket usually have time limited parking in their carpark for a small cost, which is reimbursed when you spend a nominal amount of money on a purchase in their store, but at the moment that supermarket has free parking with no maximum stay.  

It takes longer to do food shopping, due to queueing outside the store, and queueing inside the supermarket to pay for items, Tesco and Horizon are not taking this into consideration.

IN the PCN document, the images from the CCTV/ ANPR camera are very small and the vehicle number plate is not legible, also the entry time and exit time are not legible on the images, due to the images being so small. Also on the second ('exiting') image, which was taken during darkness, it is not clear if the vehicle is exiting the carpark, entering the petrol filling station or exiting the petrol filling station.

The RK was sent an accompanying document stating that ' if you are registered as disabled and need additional time to shop in store then please speak to the customer services desk in store.' The vehicle did indeed contain someone whom is disabled, but going to the store has not been possible due to symptoms of covid 19 ( evidence is available), and also pre existing disabilities.  Also going to a supermarket to speak to customer services regarding a PCN only, and not for doing food shopping, I doubt this would be considered an essential journey,  also this would increase the possibility of catching and spreading covid 19.

This Tesco carpark is extremely  large, and on the time and day in question, the car park was no way near full, not when the driver arrived, nor when the driver left.

On the day in question, it was mentioned instore to a Tesco employee that an overstay may have occurred, the employee stated that that Tesco don't get involved or that there is nothing they can do, and added that the RK/driver would have to take it up themselves with Horizon. Unfortunately the name of that Tesco employee was not noted.
A telephone call to Tesco has been made regarding this PCN, at first they said that there is nothing that they can do about it, then it was pointed out to them, that by law, they have a legal obligation under the data protection act to provide data when requested (through a subject access request), including video/photographic images from CCTV/ ANPR cameras, an address was given to ask for this video/photographic evidence, but no name of any person was given to address this request to.

In 2018 the CEO of Tesco was Mr Dave Lewis, and I have an email address for him, does anyone know if he is still the CEO or if someone else is? Thanks in advance.
Also how do I find the managers name  of this local store? thanks in advance.

In the past, the RK was given a PCN for an overstay in an Asda carpark, the PCN was taken to customer services instore together with a shopping receipt from the time and day in question, the ASDA Employee made one phone call, and the PCN was cancelled during that  phone call. Why have Tesco not adopted a similar procedure for genuine shoppers?

During the current covid 19 climate, neither Tesco nor Horizon are adopting a common sense approach.

If I am writing too much identifiable information, please comment with 'too much info', or edit it yourself, if you want to, and are able to.

As stated at the beginning, I don't know if there is anything that you can suggest at this stage, but I thank you in advance for taking the time to read this.

Redx

stage 1 , complain to the CEO as you say, check ceo email dot com for info , state that due to the current situation and queuing systems etc they should allow more time on site and stop the cameras completely, or increase the time by an extra hour or two to compensate, add a copy of your receipt or bank statement and also any clubcard details etc

stage 2 - appeal as keeper using the blue text template, no changes , unless you add a short paragraph stating that the NTK was delivered late and so failed to comply with POFA, so as keeper you have no liability

the NTK pcn should have ARRIVED by day 15 following the event, not issued

no blabbing about who was driving , the word WE will suffice, as in

WE shopped in your store, WE parked up on your car park , WE queued ETC

nb:- I do not believe that CCTV was used for this, more likely to be ANPR cameras, not CCTV cameras

late_white_rabbit

On the reverse of the PCN, under 'contesting this parking charge', it is written 'If you would like us to review this Parking charge, within 28 days of receiving this letter, please either write to: Horizon Parking, … , or you can submit an appeal online by visiting: … . All appeals must be submitted in writing to the above address or via email within 28 days of the date of issue.
This is very confusing, especially taking into consideration that the time frame between the date of issue, and the RK receiving the PCN is almost 2 weeks/14 days. So when does the 28 days start? on the issue date? or the date that the RK receives the PCN? Thanks in advance. Time is running out for an appeal.

Umkomaas

I will use the template letter and expand upon it.

No you won't. Just use the blue text template initial appeal as is, no additions/amendments.

Go to the Horizon website and check the status of your PCN, as after the main onset of the C19 virus, some are being cancelled. If not, use C19 to your advantage. Don't ask how, please use your imagination and your ability to make a written case by praying it in aid. 

MistyZ

Looks like Dave Lewis is still Tesco's CEO:
dave.lewis@uk.tesco.com

It seems that the new guy isn't taking over till October this year: https://www.retailgazette.co.uk/blog/2020/02/new-tesco-ceos-start-date-delayed-to-october/

Email a complaint to Dave Lewis as soon as possible.  The complaint should be from the RK.  The RK should use 'we' to describe those who went shopping, do not mention the driver, just 'we did this, we did that'.  Clearly explain the reasons why shopping took longer than usual.  Also tell him that an occupant or occupants of the car are registered disabled.  Tell him how much was spent and also mention if you (plural) shop there regularly.  Say that in light of the exceptional circumstances you strongly request that he cancels the PCN.

Keep things simple at this stage.  So the RK just sends the blue template appeal unaltered, as others have already advised.  

    

Redx

stop overthinking this and just do what we tell you

the complaint from the royal WE is designed to tell the CEO the problems you outlined, the changes they should have implemented for customers and people with disabilities , the reasonable adjustments they should have made and still should make

TESCO recently told people to go to the stores and queue up due to the overwhelming demand for online home deliveries , yet are penalising the loyal customers and vulnerable people at the same time through predatory contractors , CAPTAIN TOM would think poorly of TESCO in this matter

the horizon appeal is almost written anyway, unless you add the POFA caveat to it

2 simple steps for you to complete , a KEEPER appeal with the blue text template , plus the heartfelt complaint as a keeper of the vehicle

neither of them tell either party who was driving, both are insisting the pcn is cancelled

dont think , just DO

late_white_rabbit

Redx said:

stage 1 , complain to the CEO as you say, check ceo email dot com for info , state that due to the current situation and queuing systems etc they should allow more time on site and stop the cameras completely, or increase the time by an extra hour or two to compensate, add a copy of your receipt or bank statement and also any clubcard details etc

stage 2 - appeal as keeper using the blue text template, no changes , unless you add a short paragraph stating that the NTK was delivered late and so failed to comply with POFA, so as keeper you have no liability

the NTK pcn should have ARRIVED by day 15 following the event, not issued

no blabbing about who was driving , the word WE will suffice, as in

WE shopped in your store, WE parked up on your car park , WE queued ETC

nb:- I do not believe that CCTV was used for this, more likely to be ANPR cameras, not CCTV cameras

Hi Red X, thats a really quick reply from you, thanks.
So one writes to Tesco CEO  BEFORE writing to Horizon.  its probably not possible write to both within 28 days, due to dyslexia, autism and obsessive compulsive personality disorder OCPD.
The NTK PCN arrived WAY AFTER 15 days from event date. Time frame from event date to receiving NTK was approx 3 n a half weeks, approx. 24/25 days. sorry I cant be exact but the envelope doesn't have a royal mail stamp with a date, its franked or something similar, n has no date.
I am going by 1 week equals 7 days, i.e includes saturday and sunday, when you state 15 days, i dont know if you are going just by mon to fri, or mon to sun, sorry if I sound pedantic, its how OCPD effects me.
"NTK was delivered late and so failed to comply with POFA, so as keeper you have no liability", are you able to redirect me to a page/post stating what this means/what to do in this situation please , sorry but I cant remember what is written where.
sorry I think I got confused by reading a lot of info here.
Yes, I think you are correct by stating ANPR not CCTV, sorry, my mistake.
Thanks Very much RedX

late_white_rabbit

Umkomaas said:

I will use the template letter and expand upon it.

No you won't. Just use the blue text template initial appeal as is, no additions/amendments.

Go to the Horizon website and check the status of your PCN, as after the main onset of the C19 virus, some are being cancelled. If not, use C19 to your advantage. Don't ask how, please use your imagination and your ability to make a written case by praying it in aid. 

Hi Ukomass thanks for such a quick reply,

OK.

thanks v much, yes I will check on horizon website regarding status and cancellations.

I get the picture regarding covid 19 n I have already referenced covid 19 in my OP, so I will continue around that line. 

Thanks again

Redx

just assume that the NTK is out of time and treat it as having failed POFA , DO NOT THINK ABOUT IT, JUST ASSUME THAT IT FAILED TO COMPLY WITH POFA , be it 15 days or 30 days or more , if its more than 14 days nobody cares, a failure is a failure

the search ability is the same for us all and is useless since the forum changed

I suggest you just alter what I wrote above to suit , keep it short and sweet , like this

The PCN fails to comply with the requirements of schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, namely, but not limited to, section 9 (4), failing to deliver the Notice to Keeper within the relevant period of 14 days.

if in any doubt , do both because you want either or both to cancel

Coupon-mad

Just don't choose 'driver' when you appeal, online, of course.  You know why not...you are the keeper!

MistyZ

late_white_rabbit said:

So one writes to Tesco CEO  BEFORE writing to Horizon.  its probably not possible write to both within 28 days, due to dyslexia, autism and obsessive compulsive personality disorder OCPD.

Those of us who don't have the conditions you have may find it hard to understand why you can't do the complaint to Tesco and do the appeal to Horizon within 28 days.  

However I think we just have to take your word for it.  Would it help to look at it like this:

1.  If you copy and paste what Redx suggests you say to Dave Lewis, and then what I suggested too, you will have almost everything you need for the complaint.  All you have to do then is to change the words around and, obviously 'make it your own' by adding the details such as how much was spent etc. 

2.  The appeal to Horizon is even easier.  Literally just copy the appeal that is in blue text from the Newbies' thread.  Change the font colour to black.  Copy that and then paste it in the appropriate place on Horizon's website.

As already advised by Coupon-mad, make sure that you select the 'Registered Keeper' option when appealing.

Sounds like you understand things pretty well.  But the over-thinking must be difficult for you.  One step at a time and ask for assistance here whenever you need it.