Party Wall Agreement - This seem ok?

dcrep

Hi Everyone!
I've had good experiences with MSE and am back after a while :-)
Been in a new house i purchased for a few months.  The neighbour is looking to build an extension.  They have planning permission and approached us with an agreement letter.
They have mentioned that the new extension will be inside their boundary (but I think it will be right alongside/border it).
They also mentioned they will be constructing according to their structural engineer's spec and it will be checked by building control.
They will cover any costs and will make good to our satisfaction.
They want to avoid paying for a party wall surveyor (excessive costs).
It all seems good, but anyone know of anything we should add to the agreement (or anything to watch out for)?
Any advice appreciated.  I've attached a pic of what will happen.

anselld

They should still serve a formal party wall notice and you can then consent in writing.   Surveyors are only required in the event of a dispute which cannot otherwise be resolved.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/523010/Party_Wall_etc__Act_1996_-_Explanatory_Booklet.pdf

greatcrested

The problem with only calling in a surveyor if a dispute arises is that the surveyor will not have seen the original layout.

The benefit of a surveyor from the start is that you can also avoid disputes by having clear limits on what will be done, before it's done.

Having said that, your neighbour is being very open and upfront with his plans, and you have the opportunity to review and comment - and hopefully if you do have comments, he'll take them on board.

When my neighbour did similar, I chose to pay a surveyor (yes, I could have made the neighbour pay I know, but there was history of him doing things I should have paid for) a one-off fee to look at the plans, look at the site, and comment for me. My neighbour took that on oard and all went well.

Doozergirl or Freebear may have better comment on your specifics....

Looking at the plan- that's quite an extension! Surprised the planners were happy about extending forwards beyond the  existing front line of the properties.

Do you have a side window overlooking your drive? That's going to lose light.  (esp if it's 2 storey..!).

And is the extension right up to the boundary line?

edit: just realised I'd assumed this was the front of the properties. Are we looking at the rear?

dcrep

They should still serve a formal party wall notice and you can then consent in writing.   Surveyors are only required in .....

Thanks anselld! That link was useful. Much more readable than the formal doc.

greatcrested said:

The problem with only calling in a surveyor if a dispute arises is that the surveyor will not have seen the original layout.

The benefit of a surveyor from the start is that you can also avoid disputes by having clear limits on what will be done, .....

I'd thought of getting in a surveyor too.  Some say no need for that, others say better to be safe than sorry.  Seems you only regret it if things mess up.
The neighbour is happy for us to add to his agreement before I sign.
My diagrams aren't clear enough.  The garage is at the front of the properties. Added another image.  Entension is into the garden.
Its lower ground and ground floor - sloping downward into garden.  There's a side window between garage and my house.  We don't do a lot that side - more of a porch.
From what i can see it would be right up to the boundary (maybe a small gap).

blue_max_3

A party wall agreement will document the condition of your property and there will be a record in case any damage is done. The last thing you want is for them to say it was like that before the work and you really won't be able to prove one way or another.
It will likely document the working hours, noise and maybe access to your property. It's for the person doing the work to pay for it. You can insist on an independent surveyor, but not really a big deal to share one as there should not be a conflict of interest.

dcrep

They prefer not to approach a formal surveyor - they say costs.  Would lots of pictures be sufficient for documenting state, or is the doc the best way? Or a use of both?
I come from a 'you get what you pay for' point of view. But everyone differs.

anselld

Photos may suffice and that is a pragmatic view you could take.  However you still need the PW notice to be served and that does not in itself require a surveyor.  It is in fact a legal requirement to serve it prior to starting work and it does not bode well that they are trying to cut corners by not doing so.

If you agree to the work as per the notice that is fine you can formally accept and if all goes well no surveyors or any cost involved.  However if it all goes pear-shaped you have reserved the right to appoint a surveyor to resolve any arising dispute.

If you have signed some other home-grown agreement and something goes wrong downstream I am not sure where you would stand but I think you would have lost the protection of the PW act.

rach_k

When we sent a party wall notice to our neighbours, we used templates from gov.uk (these, I think: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/party-wall-etc-act-1996-guidance#example-letters) which make no mention of working hours, noise or access, so I wouldn't worry if the notice you've been given doesn't.  If they haven't sent you the proper notice, I'd point them in the direction of the website above and ask them to do it properly just so all bases are covered.  As we're on good terms with our neighbours, we just discussed anything not in the notice separately, and made sure that our builders popped round to answer any questions we couldn't.  Our builder advised us to take any photos we could from outside, as well as taking some himself, and we also asked the neighbours to photo the inside of their houses just in case.  

One thing I would ask (no knowledge of building, just a question that would occur to me) is whether you could build off the wall they're building, if you wanted to do the same to your property in future.  If the new wall is completely on their land, could you still use it?  I'd prefer it to be a party wall so that you could use it if you wanted (I believe you'd then have to pay them towards the cost of the wall, but that would be cheaper than building your own completely separate wall alongside theirs).  

Doozergirl

Party wall surveyors are not only there for a 'dispute' at all.  They are there to make sure that things are done properly but so to protect interests.  With something that size, I'd be keen to employ one.  

If something of that size is acceptable to the planning department, I would categorically insist that the wall became a party wall that I could also build
off in future.  There are many potential future problems created by building just a few cm off the boundary, not least being that it will affect any owner of your house from building an equally large extension.  You will need a much larger gap in order to build  it and then maintain it.  A party wall is far better.  Also, the fact that this is partially below ground, it has a higher likelihood of affecting your buildings, particularly your garage.  You should be seeking professional
advice.  

That is one kick-!!!!!! extension.  It costs you nothing to have a PWS involved.  I think it would be silly not to, personally.  If your neighbour can afford to do that, they can afford to protect your interests correctly.   You don't beed to have separates surveyors, just share one of your choosing. 

dcrep

rach_k said:

...whether you could build off the wall they're building, if you wanted to do the same to your property in future.  If the new wall is completely on their land, could you still use it?  I'd prefer it to be a party wall so that you could use it if you wanted....  

We were thinking of getting rid of the garage and building a separating wall that goes around from the garage to the front of the property.

Doozergirl said:

....
the wall became a party wall that I could also build off in future..............You will need a much larger gap in order to build  it and then maintain it.  A party wall is far better. .....

That is one kick-!!!!!! extension.  It costs you nothing to have a PWS involved.  I think it would be silly not to, personally.  If your neighbour can afford to do that, they can afford to protect your interests correctly.   You don't beed to have separates surveyors, just share one of your choosing. 

Hadn't thought about whether the gap would produce an issue.
The neighbour plans to do most of the work themselves therefore saving costs.

greatcrested

dcrep said:

rach_k said:

...whether you could build off the wall they're building, if you wanted to do the same to your property in future.  If the new wall is completely on their land, could you still use it?  I'd prefer it to be a party wall so that you could use it if you wanted....  

Doozergirl said:

....
the wall became a party wall that I could also build off in future..............You will need a much larger gap in order to build  it and then maintain it.  A party wall is far better. .....

That is one kick-!!!!!! extension.  It costs you nothing to have a PWS involved.  I think it would be silly not to, personally.  If your neighbour can afford to do that, they can afford to protect your interests correctly.   You don't beed to have separates surveyors, just share one of your choosing. 

.

The neighbour plans to do most of the work themselves therefore saving costs.

That seems an even greater reason to involve a surveyor to make sure that what they plan to do, not to mention what they actually do, does not impact on you at the time or in the future.

I anticipate that what will happen is your surveyor will ask the neighbours for a copy of their plans, take one look at it and respond that it is far too sketchy to be used as it is. He will then give your neighbours a list of what further information he needs to see. They will hate this (having planned just to throw up a wall vaguely where planned, with foundations as deep as they feel like at the time), but in the long run this will actually benefit them as well as you.