Incorrect furlough payment

Gottasavemoneysomehow

Hi sorry for this being my first post (I did have an old account but have forgotten the username)
Everyone at my company has beencfurlo for the last three weeks,car are paid weekly and have been paid 80% of our standard 40 hour contract pay.
However I believe we should have been paid more as overtime is quite regular and so even though our contract states 40 hours it isn't uncommon to get paid 40 hours plus several additional hours of overtime on top of that. 
I have mentioned this to my bosses who simply said 'no we've read the government website and overtime is not included'.

Who is right here? And if it is us the employees who are right then what can we do about it? If the company only claims for 80% of the basic wages using the scheme would they then be able to claim again for the extra that they mistakenly didn't pay us or claim back?

 Obviously it's hard to speak to them at the moment as the company is entirely dormant and there is no physical contact point.
Any advice would be appreciated 
Thankyou

Alter_ego

If you're on furlough, you aint doing overtime (or any work for the company)

Gottasavemoneysomehow

Alter_ego said:

If you're on furlough, you aint doing overtime (or any work for the company)

Yes I know but that doesn't answer the question. 

From the government website:

If the employee has been employed for 12 months or more, you can claim the highest of either the:

• same month’s earning from the previous year
• average monthly earnings for the 2019-2020 tax year

You can claim for any regular payments you are obliged to pay your employees. This includes wages, past overtime, fees and compulsory commission payments.


As you can see that looks pretty clear that regular overtime is included. 

Hermann

The guidance has been updated several times, perhaps check with them they have read the current update from 15 April.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/claim-for-wage-costs-through-the-coronavirus-job-retention-scheme

Past Overtime, Fees, Commission, Bonuses and non-cash payments

You can claim for any regular payments you are obliged to pay your employees. This includes wages, past overtime, fees and compulsory commission payments. However, discretionary bonus (including tips) and commission payments and non-cash payments should be excluded.

Gottasavemoneysomehow

Hermann said:

The guidance has been updated several times, perhaps check with them they have read the current update from 15 April

Past Overtime, Fees, Commission, Bonuses and non-cash payments

You can claim for any regular payments you are obliged to pay your employees. This includes wages, past overtime, fees and compulsory commission payments. However, discretionary bonus (including tips) and commission payments and non-cash payments should be excluded.

Thankyou. I have informed them of that and they still maintain that I'm wrong. I'm worried that as we are paid weekly and the claim for the grant from the government can only be done once that they will not be able to rectify the mistake now it's been made.

EssJayD

Gottasavemoneysomehow said:

Alter_ego said:

If you're on furlough, you aint doing overtime (or any work for the company)

Yes I know but that doesn't answer the question. 

From the government website:

If the employee has been employed for 12 months or more, you can claim the highest of either the:

• same month’s earning from the previous year
• average monthly earnings for the 2019-2020 tax year

You can claim for any regular payments you are obliged to pay your employees. This includes wages, past overtime, fees and compulsory commission payments.


As you can see that looks pretty clear that regular overtime is included. 

You're looking at the part relevant to workers who's pay varies (zero hour, piece work etc), as you're contracted for 40 hours your basic doesn't vary.  

The 80%/£2500 cap does include past overtime already worked 

EssJayD

(sorry should have added "I believe" at the end of that last sentence!)

Gottasavemoneysomehow

EssJayD said:

Gottasavemoneysomehow said:

Alter_ego said:

If you're on furlough, you aint doing overtime (or any work for the company)

Yes I know but that doesn't answer the question. 

From the government website:

If the employee has been employed for 12 months or more, you can claim the highest of either the:

• same month’s earning from the previous year
• average monthly earnings for the 2019-2020 tax year

You can claim for any regular payments you are obliged to pay your employees. This includes wages, past overtime, fees and compulsory commission payments.


As you can see that looks pretty clear that regular overtime is included. 

You're looking at the part relevant to workers who's pay varies (zero hour, piece work etc), as you're contracted for 40 hours your basic doesn't vary.  

The 80%/£2500 cap does include past overtime already worked 

Surely though then nobody can claim for overtime at all? If I'm contracted for 40 I can't get paid overtime so what about someone contracted for 30? Their basic doesn't vary either or someone who is contracted to 0. Their basic is 0, anything else is overtime just the same as mine is right?

EssJayD

Why cant you get paid overtime if you're contracted for 40 hours?  It depends on peoples contracts whether they can claim and get paid overtime or not.

The nature of zero hour workers is that the employer doesn't have to give regular work, so they could work 10 hours one week, 30 the next, then none.

Gottasavemoneysomehow

EssJayD said:

Why cant you get paid overtime if you're contracted for 40 hours?  It depends on peoples contracts whether they can claim and get paid overtime or not.

The nature of zero hour workers is that the employer doesn't have to give regular work, so they could work 10 hours one week, 30 the next, then none.

That's the point. I thought that I could but unless I read your post wrong you said that because I'm not zero hour or piece work I cannot be paid the extra as my contract is 40 hours 

EssJayD

You have read my post wrong 

The part you originally quoted is in relation to peoples whos pay varies e.g. zero hour workers (so not that it varies due to different amounts of overtime worked)

Under the scheme employers can claim for overtime/commission etc already earned and owed, but I believe the grant will only cover 80%/£2500 of the entire amount, so potentially someone could have worked 40 hours basic, 10 hours overtime, but the money they'd get would be capped at 80%/£2500 of the entire claim.  Otherwise employers could end up claiming a grant for hundreds of pounds on top of the 80%/£2500 depending on their overtime rates (as I say I believe, I think its still a bit of a grey area generally and thankfully we don't do paid overtime so I don't have to worry about this!)