Share of freehold Basement Coal Cellar

ESONEULB

If anyone can give me advice it would be brilliant.

I have recently purchased a Victorian property in London. The property has a top flat ( owners have share of freehold + share of freehold of middle flat)
Middle flat is leasehold. And the freehold is owned by the top flat and bottom flat.
Bottom flat which is ours is (share if freehold and owns a share of middle flat freehold)

We have the all the correct paperwork and drawings showing what is owned by who.
We are plans for an extension being drawn up and see no issues with that.

My question is that because we are the ground floor flat I new there was a old coal cellar even though it has never been shown on any drawings of plans. After removing carpet I found the cellar hatch and opened it to discover a 180° ft space which has been previously been rendered and had lights installed. 
As this space is not on any drawings and the fact that we are the only flat that has access. The space runs under our flat and under the communal entrance only.  
So who owns this space?
Can we own this space and if so what do I need to do?
In fact what should I do about this space ? 
Cheers,
Richard 

davidmcn

I don't know what "a 180° ft space" is meant to say, but the freeholder owns everything which isn't demised by a lease, so for starters it'll depend on exactly what the demise is described as in your lease.

Did you know there was a coal cellar before you completed your purchase, and if so did you discuss with your solicitor?

ESONEULB

180 square ft space.  It's 30 ft long, 6ft wide and 6.5ft high.
We had seen that similar properties had coal cellars but they were all really small spaces. I was expecting this to be a very small space and was gob smacking when I saw how big it was. So yes I new something was there.
No I never asked our solicitors about the cellar.
It's not shown on in the lease or even mentioned.
I'm looking at our freehold papers now

davidmcn

ESONEULB said:
No I never asked our solicitors about the cellar.
It's not shown on in the lease or even mentioned.

I suggest you ask your solicitor now then.

greatcrested

ESONEULB said:

If anyone can give me advice it would be brilliant.

I have recently purchased a Victorian property in London. The property has a top flat ( owners have share of freehold + share of freehold of middle flat)
Middle flat is leasehold. And the freehold is owned by the top flat and bottom flat.
Bottom flat which is ours is (share if freehold and owns a share of middle flat freehold)

We have the all the correct paperwork and drawings showing what is owned by who.

Very confusing. The flats cannot have 'share of freehold of other flats. Unless there is a very wierd (potentially problematic) legal arramgement, there can only be one freehold Title for the building. Ownership of this single Freehold may be shared between the three flat's leaseholders, or indeed any combination of them - eg there may be 3 shares two of which are owned by a single person 9who may or may not alsobe aleaseholder).

Are you saying that you (bottom flat leaseholder) and the top flat leaseholder jointly own the building's freehold - perhaps 50/50?

Assuming that is the case, and further assuming that the basement is not included in your lease, then it is owned by 'the freeholder',ie jointly by you and the top flat guy.

You have two options:

one is to simply quietly occupy the basement, since you have the only access, and hope that a) your joint freeholder never finds out/objects and b) that you don't have problems when you come to sell.

Theother is to get the basement included in a revision of your lease, which the top flat owner would have to agree to, and may wish to share in half the increase in value this would bring to your lease.

ESONEULB

greatcrested said:

ESONEULB said:

If anyone can give me advice it would be brilliant.

I have recently purchased a Victorian property in London. The property has a top flat ( owners have share of freehold + share of freehold of middle flat)
Middle flat is leasehold. And the freehold is owned by the top flat and bottom flat.
Bottom flat which is ours is (share if freehold and owns a share of middle flat freehold)

We have the all the correct paperwork and drawings showing what is owned by who.

Are you saying that you (bottom flat leaseholder) and the top flat leaseholder jointly own the building's freehold - perhaps 50/50?

Assuming that is the case, and further assuming that the basement is not included in your lease, then it is owned by 'the freeholder',ie jointly by you and the top flat guy.

You have two options:

one is to simply quietly occupy the basement, since you have the only access, and hope that a) your joint freeholder never finds out/objects and b) that you don't have problems when you come to sell.

Theother is to get the basement included in a revision of your lease, which the top flat owner would have to agree to, and may wish to share in half the increase in value this would bring to your lease.

Yes you have summed up the property ownership correctly.

The two options you gave me.. 
The 2nd option feels the correct direction to take. So it seems I need to speak to a property solicitor.

Cheers 

TripleH

I suspect the key point to state is access is only available via your flat NOT the communal areas when dealing with a solicitor. It has probably bern ignored because previous owner/s didn't want to deal with it.
Also to flip it on its head, is there loft storage or access to the roof as logic would state this is the same scenario unless I'm missing something?

ESONEULB

TripleH said:

I suspect the key point to state is access is only available via your flat NOT the communal areas when dealing with a solicitor. It has probably bern ignored because previous owner/s didn't want to deal with it.
Also to flip it on its head, is there loft storage or access to the roof as logic would state this is the same scenario unless I'm missing something?

My thoughts exactly.

If the top flat wanted to use the loft space as storage and we wanted to use the cellar as storage then there is no difference.

We only intent to use it as storage and maybe put a washing machine and dryer down there. We are going to tank the cellar and use it.. that's it. When we come to sell we mention the cellar as a bound area which is still owned by all freeholders, but you are the only ones with access. Also this is how we found the cellar when we moved in.

Thanks for a the advice. You all helped me come the above decision. 

Cheers

Richard