Social Energy/Octopus FIT

Roxytopdog

My experience with Social Energy has been positive and is set out below.  However I agree with Nic that it would be helpful to have a genuine comparison between Octopus and Social Energy to see how the respective companies perform.

In 2019, prior to installing solar panels, we used over 4,000 kwh of electricity pa and our monthly electricity bill was £60. In February 2020 we had a 5.36 kw solar array fitted. In the 3-month period March - June 2020 our metered electricity use reduced to 548 kwh at a cost of approximately £33 per month, using the now defunct supplier GNE. However we were not getting paid for export and GNE could give us no indication of when we could expect a smart meter to be fitted. In contrast to Social Energy's market leading rate the SEG tariff we were offered by GNE was low.

In the autumn of 2020 we decided to swap to Social Energy and they recommended we get a 5.8 kwh battery installed by Infinity Renewables. A key factor in agreeing this course of action was the 15-year warranty on the battery, which appears to be the best available in the UK. Social Energy arranged for the latest generation of smart meter to be installed within 3 months of us joining the company.

From my observation it takes a while for everything to get up and running, and so it is only in the last quarter that the various savings and credits have really worked for us. In the last 3 months, my metered electricity use was similar to 2020 at 541 kwh. However my net outlay, taking account of the credit carried forward as at 4 June, was just £8.98. So, to be clear, my electricity bill has come down from approximately £180 in March - June 2019, without solar panels, to around £100 in March - June 2020, just with solar, and now to less than £10 in the equivalent quarter in 2021.

For anyone reading this who has just over £10k in a savings account earning very little interest I would strongly encourage them to invest in solar panels and think carefully about whether a battery would be cost effective for them. The cost of solar panels has come down significantly. In my view, even without taking account of the CO2 agenda, investing in solar is now a no-brainer. I suspect that battery prices might also come down over time but using a provider like Social Energy can make the maths add up now, as I believe is evident from our own experience. So whilst SEG is not as generous as FIT the return on investment appears to be substantially above the best interest rates available.

In summary, I would say the following about Social Energy:

1. Customer service is one of the best I have received from any company.

2. The App is excellent and sets out the position at any point in time.

3. The savings are real. The company claims average savings of £226 and my experience would support that.

Initially I was somewhat concerned that the battery was being bypassed and any units that we generated were being sent for export. This appears to be the substantive complaint raised by disgruntled former customers. However as time has gone on the battery does seem to be more fully charged by the early evening period, when we have dinner, watch TV, have lights on etc, using units that we have generated during the day. My impression is that the company's AI is still learning our pattern of use after 8 months, as during May 2021 I noticed that the battery was performing much more in line with my expectations.

Social Energy admit that "it's not for everyone" and I agree. In order to benefit from transferring to this company you have to invest in solar panels and a battery, which has a not insignificant up-front cost. However I have now seen enough to recommend the company to anyone who is prepared to make that investment.

MWT

For anyone considering using 'Social Energy' do read as many reviews as you can, especially on forums dedicated to solar power which this one is not.

Many people are less than enthusiastic about the equipment they have been sold and the savings they have made as a result.

niktheguru

Roxytopdog said:

For anyone reading this who has just over £10k in a savings account earning very little interest I would strongly encourage them to invest in solar panels and think carefully about whether a battery would be cost effective for them. The cost of solar panels has come down significantly. In my view, even without taking account of the CO2 agenda, investing in solar is now a no-brainer. I suspect that battery prices might also come down over time but using a provider like Social Energy can make the maths add up now, as I believe is evident from our own experience. So whilst SEG is not as generous as FIT the return on investment appears to be substantially above the best interest rates available.

3. The savings are real. The company claims average savings of £226 and my experience would support that.

I'd be careful about this savings statement. With a 10k outlay and saving £170 per quarter as per your calculations, you will break even in 15 years time. There is no guarantee that your solar array and battery will be fit for purpose in 15years, may need updating etc, so then you may have another outlay.
The equivalent 10k in a savings account earning 1% would get you £1500 interest in 15 years (and surely interest rates will go up in the next 15 year.) Thats not to say keeping your money in a savings account is the thing to do, it probably isn't at the moment. (probably better invested in property or a S+S ISA etc)

Other considerations are whether you expect to be in the same house for such a long time. Of course solar is a great idea and has lots of other environmental benefits, and with more and more peopls getting EV cars in the future having a battery will be a great benefit. But until prices further reduce of the infrastructure, its still an expensive luxury for the long term. Tho I suspect when infrastructure reduces in price, so will the outbound tariff for payments to the grid, its already started.

QrizB

I'm glad it's working out for you.

Roxytopdog said:

In 2019, prior to installing solar panels, we used over 4,000 kwh of electricity pa and our monthly electricity bill was £60. In February 2020 we had a 5.36 kw solar array fitted.

... it is only in the last quarter that the various savings and credits have really worked for us. In the last 3 months, my metered electricity use was similar to 2020 at 541 kwh. However my net outlay, taking account of the credit carried forward as at 4 June, was just £8.98. So, to be clear, my electricity bill has come down from approximately £180 in March - June 2019, without solar panels, to around £100 in March - June 2020, just with solar, and now to less than £10 in the equivalent quarter in 2021.

For anyone reading this who has just over £10k in a savings account earning very little interest I would strongly encourage them to invest in solar panels and think carefully about whether a battery would be cost effective for them. ... So whilst SEG is not as generous as FIT the return on investment appears to be substantially above the best interest rates available.

3. The savings are real. The company claims average savings of £226 and my experience would support that.

A few thoughts:

• 4000 kWh/yr and a £720/yr electricity bill seems quite typical for a dual-fuel house. It's not far off what mine would be without solar. It's around 11 kWh/day on average, and you're likely to use more in the winter than summer.
• In the two lighter quarters (March to September) it's possible that your solar array and battery will meet most of your domestic electricity demand without needing to top up from the grid. In the two darker quarters (September to March) you'll still need to import. I note you've quoted your March-June bills for the past three years; what are the equivalent numbers for December to March? I would guess the savings in that period are substantially smaller, perhaps £60 or so even with the battery?
  
• Your array, assuming it's on a south-facing roof, will be generating something like 5200 kWh/yr. If you sold it all Social Energy at their SEG trate of 6p/kWh it would earn you £312 per year. If you used it all yourself, offsetting grid power at say 16p/kWh, it would earn you (ie. avoid you spending) £832. It sounds as though your saving is somewhere around £500 per year (two quarters at £180 plus, I guess, two at £60) which falls in the middle of that.
• If your saving is £500/yr then it will take 20 years to recover the £10k initial expenditure, assuming nothing needs replacing in that time.
  

[Deleted User]

Putting to one side the size of an array and battery, let us compare Octopus’ and Social Energy’s tariffs. Octopus offers a 5.5p/kWh fixed SEG tariff compared to Social Energy’s 6p/kWh. A win for Social Energy - or is it? Octopus also offers a variable outgoing tariff and a 12p/kWh SEG for owners of a Powerwall 2.

Octopus also offers a Go tariff (in my case 14.62p/kWh and 4 hours at 5p/kWh) but it then limits the SEG payment to 3p/kWh. This is a great tariff mix for the period October through to February when solar output is low and one wants to charge a battery overnight. From March through to September when solar output is enough to charge the battery then Octopus’ Agile tariff  along with a 5.5pkWh SEG more than fits the bill.

Looking at the Social Energy offer, their E7 tariff offers unit prices of 21.22p/kWh peak and 12.43p/kWh Offpeak or a variable tariff  with a unit price of 17.48p/kWh. 

As this is a money saving site, I will leave it to others to decide which supplier/SEG payer is offering the best value tariffs. (PS. Unless I elect to move the the 12p/12p Tesla Plan, then the supplier has no control over my battery; ie, the supplier cannot take stored electricity and pay me the SEG rate and leave me in a situation where I might have to buy in electricity at a much higher price. With my set up, all my electricity import requirements are satisfied when electricity is 5p/kWh).

QrizB

Also, roxytopdog, aren't you with EDF? How does that work with Social Energy?

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/78397981/#Comment_78397981

Roxytopdog said:

After waiting almost 6 months to hear from EDF, its claim that former GNE customers won't pay any more than they did with GNE is revealed to be a big fat lie.  I was paying 2.93p kwh for gas and a standing charge of 17.81p per day with GNE.  I have been told for the first time this morning that EDF propose to charge me 3.17p kwh and 30.61p per day.  Outrageous.

niktheguru

QrizB said:

Also, roxytopdog, aren't you with EDF? How does that work with Social Energy?

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/78397981/#Comment_78397981

Roxytopdog said:

After waiting almost 6 months to hear from EDF, its claim that former GNE customers won't pay any more than they did with GNE is revealed to be a big fat lie.  I was paying 2.93p kwh for gas and a standing charge of 17.81p per day with GNE.  I have been told for the first time this morning that EDF propose to charge me 3.17p kwh and 30.61p per day.  Outrageous.

Sounds like he is with EDF for gas. (EDF do do gas only tariffs)

Roxytopdog

I'm pleased to see I have generated some debate!
To answer the last post first, yes, gas with EDF and electric with Social Energy.  As an ex-GNE customer I have only just been contacted by EDF today and advised of the proposed rates, although after over 5 months I still don't have an account number.  MSE has previously advised that EDF's rates would be at least as good as GNE but that does not appear to be the case.
We have another property that has a solar array but no battery and we have been getting the highest FIT rate on that for 10 years.  At the time we put the panels up there the solar panels were much more expensive than they are now - more than twice the price for a smaller array.  I would say we have just about recouped our capital outlay on that after 10 years.  So with a 25 year FIT contract there is no question that FIT was more profitable than SEG.  However, with the demise of FIT, SEG is now the only option for new customers.  So does it stack up?
The first point I would make is that as I have a 15 year warranty on the inverter and the battery then I can be confident that a 15 year payback can work without needing to replace this kit.  I am confident that the solar array itself will last far longer than 15 years as I have a longer warranty.  So whilst the payback might be 15 years or so, rather than the 10 for my FIT system, that still represents a good financial investment even without taking account of the reduction in CO2 emissions etc.  Moreover electricity prices have gone up sharply since 2019 with it being reported as one of the main drivers in UK inflation this spring and there is no reason why that trend will change.  So whilst I don't necessarily accept at face value the payback calculation of my solar array installer of a 10.9% return on investment over a 25 year period, I do think it makes for a good investment in a time of low interest rates.  I also accept that there is a question as to whether someone will stay in the same house for a long time but a solar array and small electricity bills are likely to be a strong selling point rather than a negative when it comes to selling a house.
I acknowledge that I have posted figures for a favourable quarter but that is the only full quarter's figures I have to date.  I will update on my experience in due course as I stress that I have nothing to gain from misleading anyone and am merely trying to be open about my experience so that others can make decisions for themselves.  However I do genuinely think that we will all have to invest in making our homes more 'eco-friendly' and solar PV [as well as solar thermal which we also have] is an easy win in my view.
Leaving aside this angle, my main objective in posting was to gain others experience, in particular any Octopus customers out there who have the Agile or similar tariff, to see what magnitude of bills they are in practice getting?

QrizB

Roxytopdog said:

I'm pleased to see I have generated some debate!

Leaving aside this angle, my main objective in posting was to gain others experience, in particular any Octopus customers out there who have the Agile or similar tariff, to see what magnitude of bills they are in practice getting?

Engagement and debate is usually a good thing, agreed
Most of the solar power discussion happens in the "Green and Ethical" section of this board:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/categories/green-ethical-moneysaving
If you pop over there, you'll find plenty of people to share statistics with, including those with domestic battery systems. There's also a thread where half-a-dozen of us compare daily PV generation outputs (with a litte good-natured competition). Hope to see you over there!

Roxytopdog

It is the end of another quarter and so I thought I would update the forum about my experience with Social Energy.  This period includes bills at the start of the months of July, August and September, which relate to the actual use in the preceding month, thus my bill in July relates to usage in June.  In that 3 month period my net electricity use has been 320 kwh, broken down as 75 kwh, 119 kwh and 126 kwh each month, so it is gradually increasing as the days get shorter. 

The cost calculation has been complicated by the fact that I have transferred my gas account to Social Energy too, but the bottom line is that over the quarter my total outlay has been £1.88.  However this is solely due to having incurred gas charges of £31.25.  So if you strip the cost of the gas out then I would be about £30 in credit on the electric on top of the £180 reduction in charges that I would have been paying without solar and battery, not taking account of any electricity price increases over the last 2 years.

I acknowledge that the next 2 quarters will be the real test of the system but so far my earlier praise for Social Energy has not been diminished.