Excel Parking Feethams Leisure Darlington

Marcblue59

I have fallen victim like many others before me to the Scam that is Excel Parking on this particular site. I post this only to seek others views having read several accounts on various forums.

Whilst I realise that I may not have good prospect of winning it does raise several questions that a court may consider given the practices of Excel in this instance.

I visited this car park on 08/03/2020 in my work as a Courier to collect a couple of quite heavy items from the reception of the Premier Inn which is located in this car park being the only road access to the Hotel. I parked literally 10 yards from the Hotel entrance it was very quiet at 7 in the evening I was not aware initially that ANPR was present it was not daylight however on entering the Hotel I became aware of the ANPR control. As it was basically 30/40 secs to reach reception, I foolishly asked the staff what the time limit was to purchase a ticket to which they as it transpires incorrectly replied you have 10 Mins.

I duly collected the items returned to my van and exited, To my horror I received the dreaded charge notice dated 02/04/2020 but received on 09/04/2020 this stated that I had spent a whole 7 Mins in this car park and they now want the usual £100 discounted to £60 if I pay by 16/04/2020. It turns out that you don’t have 10 Mins to purchase a ticket it appears to be 5 Mins so being 2 Mins over they now demand their charge. I have also seen reviews that say Taxi firms will not collect or deliver people to this reception which suggests that they are fearful of the same problem. Although I suspect that A charge notice will be issued on at least two instances:

a)     If you enter this car par by mistake and drive straight out without buying a ticket hence the Taxi drivers won’t enter it

b)     If you exceed the 5 Mins to buy a ticket

 Also, that several people have suffered the same fate after dropping off friends and/or relatives

This car park did initially allow 15 mins to purchase a ticket then they reduced it to 10 Mins and now 5 Mins

The questions that I have are:

1.Are there any rules that relate to accepted reasonable times to purchase a ticket? I can’t find anything after all to park and then read the conditions/instructions then purchase a ticket will probably take at least 5 min I am thinking especially of single unassisted disabled drivers

2. I know that there are requirements about serving these notices within a number of days What are the rules in this case?

3.Would a court consider their charges to fair? And does their estimate of losses still apply?

4. Should there not be visible signs on the enterance to this car parking stating that it is ANPR controlled and that by entering you are agreeing to their terms of contract and be given a minimum time to consider the terms and the choice of accepting and purchasing or leaving without incurring a charge? This would be the main argument that I would put forward as this opportunity is not present

I realise that there are no specific laws that govern private parking however should I go through the appeals process? or should I just do what their threats request  and like many others just pay up?

beamerguy

First step is to complain to Premier Inn, not only for your case but advising them taxis refuse to go there which without doubt will lose customers for Premier Inn.  They should consider kicking out the EXCEL scammers.
You were doing your job and there is a grace period.  The problem is that EXCEL are part of a scammers group run by the IPC and in general an appeal is pointless. The IPC is a scam set up by Gladstones Solicitors

STEP 1:   Complain to the Premier Inn MD about the EXCEL scam and explain your situation and request this is cancelled
STEP 2:  Don't pay.  But, expect to receive stupid letters from debt collectors which you totally ignore.
Before EXCEL can go to court, they must by law send you a letter before claim giving you 30 days to respond. So, until you receive that rest easy .... remember you do not pay scammers
If you get a letter before claim, come back here. Excel will fall into their normal scam trap and start adding on fake amounts and that is why the courts are kicking them out ....... more later on this.

Premier Inn
Mr Simon Ewins	Managing Director
Email	simon.ewins@whitbread.com

D_P_Dance

Consider writing bad stuff on Facebook, TripAdviser, booking,com, hotels,com, Trivago et al.

Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams, so consider complaining to your MP., it can cause the scammer extra costs and work, and in some cases, cancellation.

Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, many of whom are former clampers, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted

Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.

Marcblue59

beamerguy said:

First step is to complain to Premier Inn, not only for your case but advising them taxis refuse to go there which without doubt will lose customers for Premier Inn.  They should consider kicking out the EXCEL scammers.
You were doing your job and there is a grace period.  The problem is that EXCEL are part of a scammers group run by the IPC and in general an appeal is pointless. The IPC is a scam set up by Gladstones Solicitors

STEP 1:   Complain to the Premier Inn MD about the EXCEL scam and explain your situation and request this is cancelled
STEP 2:  Don't pay.  But, expect to receive stupid letters from debt collectors which you totally ignore.
Before EXCEL can go to court, they must by law send you a letter before claim giving you 30 days to respond. So, until you receive that rest easy .... remember you do not pay scammers
If you get a letter before claim, come back here. Excel will fall into their normal scam trap and start adding on fake amounts and that is why the courts are kicking them out ....... more later on this.

Premier Inn
Mr Simon Ewins	Managing Director
Email	simon.ewins@whitbread.com

Thanks for your quick response the thing that concerns me is that there is a lot of conflicting advice most advisory orgs say that you should not ignore these notices, does that only apply to actual Penalty Charge Notices from say a Local Authority? as I am aware that these Parking Charge Notices have no value in  Law and are only basically Invoices.However they can take you to court to attempt enforcement and do with certain cases albeit a small number but in my case I supect that they might view me as an easier win because I didn't buy a ticket because I was not wanting to park and I foolishly believed the misinformation from Premier Inn staff. There are many cases in this particular car park who have been pursued despite having bought tickets 

 I have beaten a couple of these scam parking firms before by just not responding to their series of threats usually running for months until they finally give up but it was years ago .So do you think that I should not respond or should I at least Appeal? In this instance would a court not look on it unfavourably that I hadn't lodged an appeal?

Coupon-mad

 the thing that concerns me is that there is a lot of conflicting advice

No, there isn't.  See my signature. 
Have you not yet read NEWBIES PLEASE READ THESE FAQS FIRST?

The very first thing it tells you is to try PLAN A. 
Please read it...

most advisory orgs say that you should not ignore these notices, does that only apply to actual Penalty Charge Notices from say a Local Authority?

No.

 I have beaten a couple of these scam parking firms before by just not responding to their series of threats usually running for months until they finally give up but it was years ago.

Yep, and that was the advice ten years ago.  We changed it years ago.

Nowadays, PPCs sue people and we win court defences, and it looks better to appeal.  Later on at your local court (because yes, Excel sue people) the judge will view you as a more honest witness if you appeal.

KeithP

...most advisory orgs say that you should not ignore these notices

and that is exactly what you do too. Where is the 'conflicting advice'? Do not ignore it.

Which part of Beamerguy's post are you not understanding?

MistyZ

Marcblue59 - advice here is first rate. Took me a lot of reading & hanging around to come to that conclusion.  You should be doing a lot of reading here too, but if for some reason you don't do that straight away, I've saved you the bother!  

Send the appeal to Excel within the timeframe.  But also work on a humdinger of a complaint to Premier Inn and send it ASAP.  And yes, you really do need to read thru' the Newbies' thread to be prepared for all eventualities.

Don't see that complaint as just going through the motions - it has a good chance of success if it is clear, firm and you persist if fobbed off at the first attempt.  You really should not be though.

Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle?  

Marcblue59

MistyZ said:

Marcblue59 - advice here is first rate. Took me a lot of reading & hanging around to come to that conclusion.  You should be doing a lot of reading here too, but if for some reason you don't do that straight away, I've saved you the bother!  

Send the appeal to Excel within the timeframe.  But also work on a humdinger of a complaint to Premier Inn and send it ASAP.  And yes, you really do need to read thru' the Newbies' thread to be prepared for all eventualities.

Don't see that complaint as just going through the motions - it has a good chance of success if it is clear, firm and you persist if fobbed off at the first attempt.  You really should not be though.

Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle?  

Hi MistyZ
Yes I am the registered keeper and I have read extensively the newbies section and FAQ's before my initial post . The problem that I have is that having looked at the forum list of appeal grounds I can't confidently see my grounds for appeal
it's all very well to complain to Premier Inn but judging by their response to complaints about the parking on Trip Adviser they couldn't give a toss as to the effect on their hotel.
. It's encouraging that the bill has gone through the readings to make desperately needed changes  however that may not be finalised for some time. as I said in my OP I remember getting about 9 letters of increasing threat years ago from these parasites over about a six month.period and I didn't respond to any of them not even an appeal and eventually it just fizzled out.  but when I look through this forum now it seems a very different proposition today and I can see months of correspondence being needed. I am sure that there is much good advice here however in my case I basically drove into their car park stayed 7 min and drove out without buying a ticket should they decide to issue court papers what do I do then? 
..

Umkomaas

should they decide to issue court papers what do I do then? 

Deal with them at the time. What other options are you anticipating?  The NEWBIES FAQ sticky, second post, has been written with input from legally qualified contributors and takes you right through the whole process. 

Marcblue59

Umkomaas said:

should they decide to issue court papers what do I do then? 

Deal with them at the time. What other options are you anticipating?  The NEWBIES FAQ sticky, second post, has been written with input from legally qualified contributors and takes you right through the whole process. 

The question that I asked  is : What appeal grounds do  I have? Forgive my thickness but out of the list of items to appeal in the Newbies sticky there doesn't appear to be one that applies in my instance?.unless you can say different?The only one that may have been useful is the gpeol which is no longer usable,It really rips my heart out to pay these scum the money but having sifted through scores of threads on your site the vast majority of them seemto have a genuine case to defend and quite a number of them involve such fundemental errors by these scum that a Monkey could probably spank them in court
That's why I asked questions in my OP about rules to do with signage or time to consider their conditions and the opportunity to accept or decline without being heavily penalised, stuff like how can you drive into a car park turn around and exit then recieve a charge of this magnitude it would appear they can............... So thanks to all who have contributed to this thread but I think it's not worth the albeit possible low risk of ending up in court 

Coupon-mad

I am sure that there is much good advice here however in my case I basically drove into their car park stayed 7 min and drove out without buying a ticket should they decide to issue court papers what do I do then?

Defend it win and claim your costs for doing so.  There was a mandatory 10 minute grace period.

Complain to the landowner has to be your first task, because that's the easy route out.