Gas turned off. No buildings regs cert for boiler. What checks should my lawyer have done?

nimss

Hello,

Appreciate your help understanding what level of service I should expect from my lawyer during the conveyancing process.

I bought my first flat in Jun 2018 from the estate of the previous owner. On 09/03/2020 I had a boiler leak. The plumber inspected the boiler and flue and capped the gas at the meter. I have not had hot water nor heating since 09/03. From Pimlico's report:

Visually checked installation found to be very poor and dangerous. Flue termination incorrect as points down. Flue length beyond manufacturers specified length. Flue in void not fully accessible for inspection. No flue support brackets. Flue joints not screwed securely. Flue does not fall back to boiler. Flue elbow is not even connected properly. Poor clearance around boiler. Incorrect grade material used for condensate pipe. Insufficient inspection panels. Advised customer on multiple safety defects installation classified as immediately dangerous and has been capped at gas meter.

Only a Nov 2017 Landlord Gas Safe Report was shared with me during the conveyancing process. I raised a complaint with the Gas Safe Register against the plumber who issued the Landlord Gas Safe Report. They responded that a Building Regulations Compliance certificate does not exist for my flat:

A Landlords Gas Safety Record is not an installation certificate but a snapshot of the appliances in a property on the
day it is checked. Having checked from 2009 to current no Building Regulations Compliance certificate has been
notified for your property, which would be the correct document, and you would be asked for this at point of any future
sale.

I am dealing with the insurance company to get the issue sorted. They have not accepted my claim yet. The quote to fix the issue is ~£10k + VAT. There is an excess if the insurance covers the costs.

I wrote to my lawyer to ask why the missing Building Regulations Compliance certificate was not identified during the conveyancing process. They responsded that they requested it from the Seller's solicitor and that the Seller's solicitor responded with:

We do not hold any guarantees. We enclose the gas safe certificate. The letting agents do not have an electrical safety certificate as it is advisory only. The Buyers should therefore rely upon their own inspection by a ompetent person in this respect.

The above was shared with me. The enclosed gas safe certificate was the Landlord Gas Safe Report and not the Building Regulations Compliance certificate for the boiler.

My lawyer did not advise me that:

1. a Building Regulations Compliance certificate is required for the boiler; for the sale of the flat
   
2. the seller could not provide the certificate
3. the certificate was never issued for my flat (easily identified by trying to order a duplicate copy from the Gas Safe Register)
   

What level of service should I expect from my conveyancing lawyer? Should they have identified and highlighted the above issue? Do I have grounds to raise a formal complaint against their service?

Appreciate any help with the above.

Thanks,

Nim

AdrianC

nimss said:

Appreciate your help understanding what level of service I should expect from my lawyer during the conveyancing process.

I bought my first flat in Jun 2018 from the estate of the previous owner. On 09/03/2020 I had a boiler leak. The plumber inspected the boiler and flue and capped the gas at the meter. I have not had hot water nor heating since 09/03. From Pimlico's report:

Visually checked installation found to be very poor and dangerous. Flue termination incorrect as points down. Flue length beyond manufacturers specified length. Flue in void not fully accessible for inspection. No flue support brackets. Flue joints not screwed securely. Flue does not fall back to boiler. Flue elbow is not even connected properly. Poor clearance around boiler. Incorrect grade material used for condensate pipe. Insufficient inspection panels. Advised customer on multiple safety defects installation classified as immediately dangerous and has been capped at gas meter.

Only a Nov 2017 Landlord Gas Safe Report was shared with me during the conveyancing process. I raised a complaint with the Gas Safe Register against the plumber who issued the Landlord Gas Safe Report. They responded that a Building Regulations Compliance certificate does not exist for my flat:

A Landlords Gas Safety Record is not an installation certificate but a snapshot of the appliances in a property on the
day it is checked. Having checked from 2009 to current no Building Regulations Compliance certificate has been
notified for your property, which would be the correct document, and you would be asked for this at point of any future sale.

I am dealing with the insurance company to get the issue sorted. They have not accepted my claim yet. The quote to fix the issue is ~£10k + VAT. There is an excess if the insurance covers the costs.

I wrote to my lawyer to ask why the missing Building Regulations Compliance certificate was not identified during the conveyancing process. They responsded that they requested it from the Seller's solicitor and that the Seller's solicitor responded with:

We do not hold any guarantees. We enclose the gas safe certificate. The letting agents do not have an electrical safety certificate as it is advisory only. The Buyers should therefore rely upon their own inspection by a competent person in this respect.

The above was shared with me. The enclosed gas safe certificate was the Landlord Gas Safe Report and not the Building Regulations Compliance certificate for the boiler.

My lawyer did not advise me that:

1. a Building Regulations Compliance certificate is required for the boiler; for the sale of the flat
   
2. the seller could not provide the certificate
3. the certificate was never issued for my flat (easily identified by trying to order a duplicate copy from the Gas Safe Register)
   

What level of service should I expect from my conveyancing lawyer? Should they have identified and highlighted the above issue? Do I have grounds to raise a formal complaint against their service?

To answer your three points...

1. It isn't. BR sign-off may have been required at the time the work was done, but failure to get it can only be enforced by the local authority for a year after the work is completed.
2. They did. You said they did when you said they "shared with you" that reply.
3. The vendor shared what paperwork they did have - a 2017 landlord's gas safety cert. You clearly accepted that, by going on to exchange contracts without undertaking your own further due diligence.

Your solicitor's done nothing wrong here. Probate sales often don't come with full information - simply because the person who may be able to provide it is dead. It's up to you, the buyer, to do your own due diligence and satisfy yourself as to the presence or absence of any paperwork, or the condition, before exchange.

What insurance are you trying to claim from?

oldbikebloke

as above, it was a probate sale so the vendors will have limited / no knowledge of the building and will say exactly what they did say: "-The Buyers should therefore rely upon their own inspection by a competent person in this respect." 

Either from your own ignorance in such a situation, or by active choice, you overlooked doing your own extra investigation ("due diligence") so you cannot shift the blame to anyone else.

Hasbeen

As above unfortunately.
Interested to know what insurance would consider paying out anything for a pre existing faults?
£10000 +vat appears very expensive to repair/reinstall a new flue to meet safety requirements?

nimss

Thanks for your quick reply. I'm trying to claim from my new home warranty

AdrianC

So it was built <10yrs ago, and is still under the balance of the new-build warranty? OK, you sort of forgot to mention that bit...

That would also suggest that the flue and boiler were installed as part of the build, so no separate BR sign-off would have been required. They would have been part of the completion sign-off for the property as a whole, which must have been done for the original sale to have completed and the warranty to be in place.

And Hasbeen's right. £12k is extortion for a new boiler and flue. It would also include substantial betterment.

nimss

Hasbeen said:

As above unfortunately.
Interested to know what insurance would consider paying out anything for a pre existing faults?
£10000 +vat appears very expensive to repair/reinstall a new flue to meet safety requirements?

I'm trying to claim from the new home warranty - the flat is about 5 years old.

The £10k includes a new boiler. Apparently they need to rip the roof off the kitchen to fix it. The roof cavity is small so they may have to lower the roof in places. I'm trying to get the Freeholder's approval to re-route the flue, which will be cheaper.

Hasbeen

nimss said:

Thanks for your quick reply. I'm trying to claim from my new home warranty

There appears to be 3-4 main providers that they broker for. Is your fault covered as below?
https://www.premierguarantee.com/new-homes-ipid/

nimss

Hasbeen said:

nimss said:

Thanks for your quick reply. I'm trying to claim from my new home warranty

There appears to be 3-4 main providers that they broker for. Is your fault covered as below?

The underwriter is AmTrust. It seems to be covered.

The cost of repairing or making good any defects in the chimneys and flues of the home which was newly constructed by the developer and which causes an imminent danger to the health and safety of occupants

Hasbeen

nimss said:

Hasbeen said:

nimss said:

Thanks for your quick reply. I'm trying to claim from my new home warranty

There appears to be 3-4 main providers that they broker for. Is your fault covered as below?

The underwriter is AmTrust. It seems to be covered.

The cost of repairing or making good any defects in the chimneys and flues of the home which was newly constructed by the developer and which causes an imminent danger to the health and safety of occupants

Good. Did not know it was a newly constructed property as the list of faults led me to believe it was older.

£10000+vat still appears to be expensive? Did you get a number of quotes?

davidmcn

Hasbeen said:

nimss said:

Hasbeen said:

nimss said:

Thanks for your quick reply. I'm trying to claim from my new home warranty

There appears to be 3-4 main providers that they broker for. Is your fault covered as below?

The underwriter is AmTrust. It seems to be covered.

The cost of repairing or making good any defects in the chimneys and flues of the home which was newly constructed by the developer and which causes an imminent danger to the health and safety of occupants

£10000+vat still appears to be expensive? Did you get a number of quotes?

I agree it sounds absurdly high just to replace the flue and condensate pipe and add some access panels.