Electrical, home lighting at top of stairs

TrippleG

Stair landing light permanently on!

Ok never posted before but here goes.

Moved into new property 6 months ago. Top of the stairs landing light was not working. Had a look at the switches + there were wires disconnected. Connected them up and the light is permanently on!

Upon further investigation I removed the ceiling rose for the light and found this mess!! Please see 1st attachment.

I traced all 5 wires back. We have a permanent connected smoke alarm I believe comes up from the main junction box, to smoke alarm and then into the stair ceiling rose. So that's one of the cables. Then the bethroom light runs off of it, and also the spare room light, so there are 2 more. Then there are 2 cables for the light switch for the light itself. (Not sure why 2, poss because 2way switch + needed down stairs aswell).

For the life of me I can't figure out why the light is permanently on. This explains why it was all disconnected when we 1st moved in.

Notice that none of the earth's have been connected either!! I think they must of turned up on horseback when installing this!!

Additionally there are 2 more rooms but I think one run off from the spare room, radially + the other runs radially of the bathroom.

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I'm a pretty cable DIY'er but dunno where 2 start here. Any help or advice to sort this out would be greatly appreciated.

I have also put pics of the light switches at the top of stairs + bottom of stairs on there fyi.

I just can't believe all the wiring is cumulated into the ceiling rose for the upstairs landing light. It doesn't make sense. Also why is there 2 cables from the top of stairs light going into the rose? 

Again I'd appreciate any help in getting this sorted.

Photos below from top.1) switch with blue wall background = light switch at bottom of the stairs.

2) ceiling rose as found with insulation tape

3) ceiling rose with masking tape I put on once traced the wires back to origin. Plus the 2 wires from the upstairs wall light switch, which is the last picture.

4) light switch at top of the stairs with white wall background.

I hope this makes sense and would appreciate any help. 👍

TrippleG

Ok so the attachments didn't attach in order but I have named the attachment at the end so ignore the reference to them in the main text. Thank you 😁

Paula_Smith

That looks distinctly dodgy - you have an unprotected metal joint block for live and neutral within an inch of each other.
Get an electrician in.

nofoollikeold

1. As stated above, its extremely dodgy and should be corrected by someone qualified.
2. Do you have another switch for the landing light at the bottom of the stairs / in the hall?  Stair lights, and often hall lights, are often on two way switches, so that you can switch them on or off from the top or bottom of the stairs as convenient.  The normal way of wiring these is with two wires running between the switches.  One wire from terminal L1 of one switch to terminal L1 of the other, and the other from L2 of one switch to L2 of the other.  The live wire (brown) is connected to the COM terminal of one switch and the light holder to the COM terminal of the other connector.
3. Unless you are experienced in, and confident of, your ability to deal with lethal mains voltage you must leave it alone.
4. If you are going to do anything, make sure the mains is OFF at the consumer unit.  Don't rely on switching of the lighting circuit breaker or pulling out the fuse - its not enough for safety.
5. After switching off, make sure there is no voltage present on any of the wires using a decent multimeter.  A neon screwdriver is not a good enough test.

tacpot12

Lots of good advice from nofoollikeold. Landing lights are sometimes found with a 'borrowed neutral' as well, so if you do investigate this further yourself, be aware that the neutral might come from the downstairs lighting circuit.  

robatwork

Distinct lack of insulation tape in pic 3 unless you removed it. In any case the whole thing screams bodge. Get an electrician in who will probably come with an assistant so he can test continuity etc.  Given that some A&E departments are actually closed at the moment as are urgent care centres, you'd be a bit daft to take this on yourself.

stragglebod

Hope @Risteard doesn't see this, he'll go postal

Owain_Moneysaver

Yeah, that whole lot needs to be redone properly. 

Heedtheadvice

Never mind @Risteard!

Quite obviously a potential death trap flouting safe installation requirements defined by wiring regs of even many  a year ago!

Get an electrician in asap.

Do not follow diy fix suggestions as it requires competence and the correct equipment to fix and prove safety.

Given what has clearly been bodged there a Condition Report for the whole property is advisable!

mwarby

You really want a proper junction box or similar, that collection of terminal blocks is not great, especially with a metal fitting. At least when done properly if you decide to change it again it’ll be much easier 

regarding wether you should DIY, I think generally with electrics unless your competent (and sorry if you were you wouldn’t be asking) I understand a lot of the theory, but I wouldn’t feel confident or competent to fix and would get an electrician in

if this is a new to you home I’d look at getting an EICR (electrical installation condition report) to see how safe and compliant the electrics are throughout. You don’t need to fix everything that’s found in one go (your not a landlord who needs a pass cert) but best to know if anything needs doing

nofoollikeold

1. I'd guess that the ceiling wiring is the result of a "DIY" replacement of a normal pendant light fitting and ceiling rose with the current light fitting.
2. The bare metal joining blocks look like the insides of a ceiling rose, except that when inside the rose they would be separated by plastic insulation.
3. There is a further issue with that fitting, in that the fire protection afforded by a normal ceiling rose is entirely missing, with a big gap offering a route for fire and smoke.
4. Other than that, it looks like fairly standard wiring: Loop in, loop out, wiring to switch and two way wiring to downstairs switch.  
5. But the advice remains - If you don't know what you are doing, don't touch it.  If you were certain of what you were doing you wouldn't be asking on here.