Information regarding historical anti-social behaviour?

leamingtonspaceman

Chandler85 said:

The short answer is, you will find it extremely hard to find out unless another neighbour confirms an actual complaint was put in.  Not just that the old resident use to whinge on the hallway every so often.

All the rubbish about it being irresponsible to house someone with a child there is irrelevant.  There are probably thousands of children from 0-18 growing up in houses with noisy neighbours and anti-social people, whether they are rented, privately owned or council.  The council won't move someone because they have a young child and it is noisy, the same child will probably be a cause of noise to someone else in the future.  That is life.

The options are to complain to the council/ housing association or try and get an exchange with someone else and move homes.  There is a shortage of council/ social housing almost everywhere in the country. 

A noisy flat is better then a temporary B&B or on the streets.

Thanks for the advice regarding my actual question and stating that it will be difficult to find out if the council were aware of the ASB issues historically.

Thanks for the options you've suggested. I didn't ask for those though.

All the "rubbish" isn't "irrelevant" at all. Just because there are thousands of children growing up in homes surrounded by ASB doesn't make it right or acceptable. It's this kind of attitude that allows this type of behaviour to proliferate... people who just accept it and don't fight it.

The council will move someone who has a child and is being subject to noise if you fight hard enough. They'll also evict the perpetrator of the noise and ASB if you fight hard enough and aren't afraid of or intimidated by such people.

Your attitude is very defeatist and plays right into the hands of those who perpetrate ASB.

The noise my friends are being subject to is such that it is causing things to move on their shelves. Their baby is being woken during the day and at night. My friends are on the verge of a breakdown. The child's mother is up at night sobbing from the noise AND from having to attend to a child distressed by the noise.

But I'm dealing with this on their behalf.

All I asked was if I could obtain historical information about ASB issues... not advice on existential or sociological behavioural issues.

Slithery

leamingtonspaceman said:
All I asked was if I could obtain historical information about ASB issues... not advice on existential or sociological behavioural issues.

In which case you should have paid for legal advice. This is a public forum where people are free to post what they wish.

leamingtonspaceman

Slithery said:

leamingtonspaceman said:
All I asked was if I could obtain historical information about ASB issues... not advice on existential or sociological behavioural issues.

In which case you should have paid for legal advice. This is a public forum where people are free to post what they wish.

Of course they are... myself included.

But people also have to show some respect for the question being asked.

If someone asks "what's the time?" then they simply want to know the time. They don't want to be asked why they want to know the time, the effect of the time on their situation or how the time is perceived by others.

They just want to know the time...

davidmcn

leamingtonspaceman said:

davidmcn said:

leamingtonspaceman said:

davidmcn said:

In theory they could make a FOI request, but probably then find it's redacted or refused because it would contain personal information about the complainant or complainee which the council can't disclose. I doubt they have a remedy about it not being disclosed to them before they took on the flat, all they can really do is pursue further action now.

But if this behaviour is historical then surely there has been a dereliction of duty and care by the council in housing a couple with a child in such an environment?

I don't know the nature of the ASB, but is there anything in particular about it which makes a couple with a child a worse option for tenants than somebody else?

The effects of ASB on anyone can be far-reaching. But a newborn child has specific nurturing needs from parents... needs that an adult doesn't have. If the parents are being affected to the extent my friends are then it impacts on their ability to parent a young child who is in the first stages of life.

The nature of some of the ASB affects the child directly via sensory means.

So, not a good situation for anyone but to expose a baby to it is pretty irresponsible.

But this isn't related to my original question.

Your original post said "I am wondering if the Council acted irresponsibly housing a young couple with a baby in a flat with known and historical ASB issues going on around them.". Was that meant to be merely a statement for our information rather than a request for advice about the legal position? If the latter, I doubt there is such a duty.

Norman_Castle

leamingtonspaceman said:

Chandler85 said:

The short answer is, you will find it extremely hard to find out unless another neighbour confirms an actual complaint was put in.  Not just that the old resident use to whinge on the hallway every so often.

All the rubbish about it being irresponsible to house someone with a child there is irrelevant.  There are probably thousands of children from 0-18 growing up in houses with noisy neighbours and anti-social people, whether they are rented, privately owned or council.  The council won't move someone because they have a young child and it is noisy, the same child will probably be a cause of noise to someone else in the future.  That is life.

The options are to complain to the council/ housing association or try and get an exchange with someone else and move homes.  There is a shortage of council/ social housing almost everywhere in the country. 

A noisy flat is better then a temporary B&B or on the streets.

  It's this kind of attitude that allows this type of behaviour to proliferate... people who just accept it and don't fight it.

The council will move someone who has a child and is being subject to noise if you fight hard enough. They'll also evict the perpetrator of the noise and ASB if you fight hard enough and aren't afraid of or intimidated by such people.

 I'm dealing with this on their behalf.

You've clearly never tried "fighting it" A council may or may not move a victim of asb regardless of how hard they fight, If the victim moves it will be because of a request for a transfer, a council may offer a transfer but will not take control and move someone on their behalf.

A council cannot evict someone, a court can. For a council to apply to evict a tenant they need to be relatively sure the eviction will be agreed due to the cost of taking action against a tenant. Ask this council how often they successfully evict a tenant due to asb.

I'm sure your friends appreciate your help however thinking this will be any easy win if you fight is deluded. I've had three seriously problematic neighbours, one still ongoing. One lasted 15 years and only properly resolved when the tenant moved for health reasons, the other ended when the tenant was imprisoned. Neither were resolved by the landlord. The current one has so far lasted about 6 years. Due to the tenant causing problems to numerous other tenants the landlord is looking to evict but from experience I'm sceptical that will happen. I've had my reasons for staying but suspect it could have been simpler to leave. Your friends have only been there 6 months and apparently there may be other properties available to them. View moving as a viable option, not as a defeat. Its easy to declare you will fight this when you are not living through it. I'm sure you will be rudely dismissive of my reply as you have previously and towards others but for the benefit of your friends take the advice of others who have lived through this or similar.

With regards to the child suffering I suspect they will be harmed more by the stress they feel from the parents than the issues themselves.

Good luck, you'll need it.

societys_child

Couldn't they rent privately? It'd give them more options and hopefully somewhere less noisy

Smodlet

As someone who lived next door to ASB neighbours for years (not just my opinion; he was subject to an exclusion order and she went to prison in the end... For all of seven weeks out of a five month sentence) I think you might consider inviting your friends to live in your ivory tower with you if you are so concerned about them.  The police don't give a damn under normal circumstances; do you really think they have nothing better to do now?

I doubt the ASB part of your council are able to do anything at the moment, given a large part of their job is home visits.  About the sum of their ability would be to send a letter to the offending parties, I imagine.  I know far too well what noisy neighbours can do one's quality of life and, had I a £ for every time I wanted to go next door and kill them, I would be able to move somewhere much better by now; the point is, I did not act on my impulse:  I went through proper channels and it took two and a half years because their (private) landlord was useless.  At least, it should be easier with the council being the LL but, if this problem has indeed persisted for years, one wonders just how effective they are.  Ours was... "Slow" is a kind word.

Starbrite

I am a Housing Association tenant and live in a flat with an anti social behavior neighbor next door, lets just say the last 7 years have been hell. I have complained till I was blue in the face, keep logs of the noise used the recommended noise app, which does not record the sounds as loud as they actually happen.

I have found out over the years, my neighbour has a history of violance towards women, I am a single female... Great idea put me next to someone with this history! he has been arrested several times, police raiding his home 3 times to get him. He has served time at least 3 times.

Finally last summer he chased a food deliverly guy down the road with a weapon... the del guy knock on a neigbours door who called the police... this was the turning point, a female PC has been so helpful coming round asking everyone in the block there experiences, she is working hard to have him evicted. However HA stil half heartily care.

I got sent to counseling for this, I only went to have the box ticked... I learnt the magic words "Management Move" after years of asking my HA to evict him or move me and getting no where I muttered these words

I am now on the top of list for a move, I was shown a property just before lock down alas the building was same styale as one I am in so raised concerns/alarm bells for me

I would love for the to be some sort of website to find out what the neighbours are like before moving, I am scared of jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire

All I can suggest is keep shouting about the problem, involve environmental health agency your landlord and if you can get a PC on your side fantastic, I will admit that was a fluke in my case she contacted me. Keep details of the ASB, video if you can safely, if its drug dealing police will need the reg numbers of any cars coming going .

You can now check a new partner for a history of violence but you cannot check neighbors which I think is appalling

Smodlet

Starbrite, I wish you the very best of luck in finding a peaceful home where you can feel safe, I really do.

ETA:  The fact the other property was the same style does not automatically mean it would not be better, though I understand completely about the frying pan/fire scenario.  The neighbours you have make all the difference in the world.

I got to wondering if there was an inherent fault with the building (semi, no sound insulation as it was not invented back when these were built) but no, it is entirely down to the neighbours' behaviour.  There is no reason why people cannot walk up the stairs instead of pounding, is there?  There is no excuse whatsoever for screaming, screeching rows when you know perfectly well other people who are nothing to do with you can hear you.  It is all about consideration and respect and, where that does not exist because your neighbours are scum, the only recourse you have is either to move or to have them evicted.

In our case, we own our home and they "rented" for all they did not pay a penny in rent for 18 months... That is how useless their LL was:  Two months arrears and you can apply for a Section 8 for which the only defence is to pay the rent but no, he allowed it to drag on for another year and four months of hell for us.

Please keep your spirits up and stay safe; one day this will all be in your rear-view, I very much hope.  Sending you positive vibes.

leamingtonspaceman

Norman_Castle said:

leamingtonspaceman said:

Chandler85 said:

The short answer is, you will find it extremely hard to find out unless another neighbour confirms an actual complaint was put in.  Not just that the old resident use to whinge on the hallway every so often.

All the rubbish about it being irresponsible to house someone with a child there is irrelevant.  There are probably thousands of children from 0-18 growing up in houses with noisy neighbours and anti-social people, whether they are rented, privately owned or council.  The council won't move someone because they have a young child and it is noisy, the same child will probably be a cause of noise to someone else in the future.  That is life.

The options are to complain to the council/ housing association or try and get an exchange with someone else and move homes.  There is a shortage of council/ social housing almost everywhere in the country. 

A noisy flat is better then a temporary B&B or on the streets.

  It's this kind of attitude that allows this type of behaviour to proliferate... people who just accept it and don't fight it.

The council will move someone who has a child and is being subject to noise if you fight hard enough. They'll also evict the perpetrator of the noise and ASB if you fight hard enough and aren't afraid of or intimidated by such people.

 I'm dealing with this on their behalf.

You've clearly never tried "fighting it" A council may or may not move a victim of asb regardless of how hard they fight, If the victim moves it will be because of a request for a transfer, a council may offer a transfer but will not take control and move someone on their behalf.

A council cannot evict someone, a court can. For a council to apply to evict a tenant they need to be relatively sure the eviction will be agreed due to the cost of taking action against a tenant. Ask this council how often they successfully evict a tenant due to asb.

I'm sure your friends appreciate your help however thinking this will be any easy win if you fight is deluded. I've had three seriously problematic neighbours, one still ongoing. One lasted 15 years and only properly resolved when the tenant moved for health reasons, the other ended when the tenant was imprisoned. Neither were resolved bytherapistmlord. The current one has so far lasted about 6 years. Due to the tenant causing problems to numerous other tenants the landlord is looking to evict but from experience I'm sceptical that will happen. I've had my reasons for staying but suspect it could have been simpler to leave. Your friends have only been there 6 months and apparently there may be other properties available to them. View moving as a viable option, not as a defeat. Its easy to declare you will fight this when you are not living through it. I'm sure you will be rudely dismissive of my reply as you have previously and towards others but for the benefit of your friends take the advice of others who have lived through this or similar.

With regards to the child suffering I suspect they will be harmed more by the stress they feel from the parents than the issues themselves.

Good luck, you'll need it.

Norman_Castle said:

leamingtonspaceman said:

Chandler85 said:

The short answer is, you will find it extremely hard to find out unless another neighbour confirms an actual complaint was put in.  Not just that the old resident use to whinge on the hallway every so often.

All the rubbish about it being irresponsible to house someone with a child there is irrelevant.  There are probably thousands of children from 0-18 growing up in houses with noisy neighbours and anti-social people, whether they are rented, privately owned or council.  The council won't move someone because they have a young child and it is noisy, the same child will probably be a cause of noise to someone else in the future.  That is life.

The options are to complain to the council/ housing association or try and get an exchange with someone else and move homes.  There is a shortage of council/ social housing almost everywhere in the country. 

A noisy flat is better then a temporary B&B or on the streets.

  It's this kind of attitude that allows this type of behaviour to proliferate... people who just accept it and don't fight it.

The council will move someone who has a child and is being subject to noise if you fight hard enough. They'll also evict the perpetrator of the noise and ASB if you fight hard enough and aren't afraid of or intimidated by such people.

 I'm dealing with this on their behalf.

You've clearly never tried "fighting it"

Now you're making incorrect assumptions.

I have lived in a social housing property, a one bedroom flat, for 16 years.

During that time I've had four neighbours who were perpetrators of noise and/or ASB.

Two moved solely down to my not letting it go and me standing up to them. Two were evicted solely down to my evidence. One accepted the housing association eviction notice without a fight. Another took it to court. I gave evidence in court despite fear or reprisal.

I have worked as a support worker myself and have assisted in two evictions of residents creating ASB.

Why would I state that it is possible to get perpetrators of ASB moved on if I'd never been part of doing this myself?

It still remains that my question was regarding the request of information regarding historical ASB. That is ALL that was asked for.

And I asked because it's something I've never been involved with regarding the council.