Double storey extension

bargainhunter121

The layout of our house is a mess. Built 1950s, detached on a hill, great views but no proper bathroom just a shower room separate toilet and pretty small kitchen. We just had a baby and would like to sort out the bathroom to include a bath and a kitchen diner ideally or at least a bigger kitchen. We also mentioned a utility room to the side of the kitchen, but would be willing to compromise with this.

Due to the incline in our garden we will need a new retaining wall. The ideal plan we would love is 75k which we don’t want to spend. The next best option within our budget is to have a bigger kitchen (but no dining space) a utility, create a decent sized bathroom and make our box room into a double sized room. We have a second reception in front of the kitchen at the moment, would we be better to knock this through to the kitchen to have an open plan diner? Without combining the 2 rooms the cost of this is 58k. We will be building 2sqft out for this cost. The 75k quote was for 3sqft out. The architect has told us that it’s likely we probably wouldn’t get our money back if we were to sell (for the 75k idea) so far the house has cost us 220k, typically a good 3 bed would be worth 275k I think at most. Any thoughts on combining the kitchen/reception, if the price seems fair and given covid19 are we wise to initiate the planning aspect soon? Financially we have around 11k of a mortgage remaining and 30k of savings. 

Doozergirl

Can you post pictures of the existing/proposed floorplans?    It's impossible to design from words.   

FreeBear

bargainhunter121 said: Without combining the 2 rooms the cost of this is 58k. We will be building 2sqft out for this cost. The 75k quote was for 3sqft out.

Methinks you are getting your units of measure mixed up... In my opinion, extending by a paltry two metres is hardly worth the effort. Extending out to three metres gives you a usable amount of space, and that would be the minimum I'd personally entertain.

On the assumption that you are keeping this property long term, I'd not worry about any perceived increase in value. Ten years down the line, who knows how much more a four bed will be worth over a three bed.

Regardless of the size of the extension, one thing I would say - Don't have a flat roof. Get a pitched tiled roof to match up with the original. You get a bit more loft space, and will never have to worry about repairing a flat roof.

bargainhunter121

The first image is the current layout. The second one, is the one price wise is suitable, but we’re considering knocking the wall between the kitchen and living space to create a kitchen diner. Mind you, we haven’t enquired yet as to how much this might cost. 

DevilDamo

When you say 2sq.ft and 3sq.ft, I assume you did mean 2m and 3m as per what @FreeBear mentioned above?

I personally like the layout and flow as you’ve shown. I don’t think you would need to increase it to 3m as I’m not sure if the increased costs would provide any major additional benefit. You would currently end up with three good size double Bedrooms. By going to the 3m, were you thinking of adding in a fourth Bedroom? If so, that would be tight as with the four Bedroom ratio, you would normally expect to see the master with an En-suite and therefore reducing the size of other rooms.

As for knocking through the Kitchen to the front room, the wall may well be load bearing if it supports the wall above or existing floor joists and so may require a timber or steel beam below. You would however expect the existing floor joists to span side to side, i.e. the shortest span but to be confirmed. I don’t think the removal of the whole wall would be of a huge benefit. Why not think about introducing sliding/pocket doors so you have the option of closing the rooms off or opening them up? In going down that route, you’d probably get away with a lintel as opposed to a timber/steel beam and therefore slightly reducing the costs.

bargainhunter121

Hi. Sorry I think it was metres rather than feet. Thanks for your opinion, I was reluctant initially to combine the two rooms but thought it may be more practical/desirable if we were to sell in the future. We only have a small dining table at the moment in the front living room. the architect has said there would be no space for it or even an island in the kitchen with the 2m extension, so I guess we'll have to compromise there. Might be an idea to have doors as you've said, not sure what to do just yet as I suppose we'd be losing a wall of cupboard space then.
The 3m extension we wanted included dining space In the kitchen without giving up the front room, and the bathroom and third bedroom was quite large. He did have another plan squeezing in a 4th bedroom but at 83k, there was no way we would consider it and a 4th bed is a luxury for us.

We're pretty much novices in this area so don't know much about the building side of things, so thanks for your help.

bargainhunter121

Also the 58k price on this option (without dining space) I calculated from his previous prices, but he told me this may not be accurate and that the cost between the options we looked at wouldn't have had that much of a difference. He has now suggested I get a quantity surveyor to give us more accurate building costs for either option. 

FreeBear

bargainhunter121 said: Might be an idea to have doors as you've said, not sure what to do just yet as I suppose we'd be losing a wall of cupboard space then.

Looking at the drawings, I would imagine there would be some substantial earthworks involved, so I can see why there is a significant increase in cost from 2m to 3m.

A couple of random thoughts - If you did away with the window in the utility area, you would have some extra wall space for cupboards. I've done away with wall cupboards in my kitchen, and it makes the space feel much larger. Hung a couple of wall cupboards in the (tiny) utility area to make up for it.

I'd suggest moving the hob a bit closer to the sink so that you don't have so far to move when draining a pan - The supporting pillar for the RSJ may get in the way of that idea though.

One last thought - Don't put a dishwasher or oven to the right of the sink - If a small child (or energetic adult) came running through the door, they could get seriously hurt if the oven/dishwasher door is open. Think twice about drawers in that area for the same reason.

DevilDamo

FreeBear said:

If you did away with the window in the utility area, you would have some extra wall space for cupboards.

From an external point of view, that would make the rear elevation in particular the ground floor element a little bland especially with the window above. That scenario work better if the Utility was to be located on the side wall.

Something to bear in mind is the design of the new roof. As the width of the rear extension will be wider than the main central side to side to side part of the house, your new roof would have to be double gable/hip at the same pitch as existing or a single gable/hip at a shallower pitch than existing.

Doozergirl

If you don't want to knock it through, don't.  It won't make a difference to the end selling price.  If it works better for you then leave it that way. 

Personally, I would, because I'm the cook and eating is a very social occasion for me and we (usually!) constantly entertain.  The utility takes a good deal of storage need away from the kitchen, so it doesn't need to be 5 metres long, especially in a 3 bed house, so you could increase the dining area and a breakfast bar is an easy option.  Not many kitchens fit an island that well, to be frank.  

Putting double doors in isn't going to save much in the way of money; you need a structural engineer and building control anyway and the actual steels themselves aren't particularly expensive.  You've already pointed out that you don't really get any benefit because the wall space is lost, the rooms aren't actually open and doors themselves take up room.  The cost of buying and installing doors, door furniture, additional architrave, paint/varnish is even likely to end up more expensive than knocking through.   

It's a very clever little design though. I like it.  

Doozergirl

DevilDamo said:

FreeBear said:

If you did away with the window in the utility area, you would have some extra wall space for cupboards.

From an external point of view, that would make the rear elevation in particular the ground floor element a little bland especially with the window above. That scenario work better if the Utility was to be located on the side wall.

Something to bear in mind is the design of the new roof. As the width of the rear extension will be wider than the main central side to side to side part of the house, your new roof would have to be double gable/hip at the same pitch as existing or a single gable/hip at a shallower pitch than existing.

Flip the utility.  Move the doors over and have the units against the existing external wall.  There is water and waste on the other side in the loo anyway, otherwise a new waste can be buried into the new floor. 

Job done.