Contract Statement of Authority signed and dates

D_P_Dance

Indeed the issue of the contract is the important matter here.  the rest is a bagatelle by comparison.  

[Deleted User]

We'll see. I was under the impression as we're not under Oath in small claims there's no 'penalty of perjury'.  I can't really see a judge just 'taking there word for it' and are you essentially suggesting there is no burden of proof? A judge should take everyone's witness statement as gospel? Whats the point in VCS providing an evidence pack in this case? what's the point in me getting a proof of postage for the WS.. as long as I say it true it must be right?

If their proof is only their oral evidence, we'd all be ****ed because any vogue PPC could claim they sent anything, to anyone, at anytime. From my experience, a Claimant requires actual evidence to persuade a judge in the civil courts - thus the claimant sending a 20 page pack of 'evidence' of pictures, signage etc.  

And I'm not suggesting it would set a binding precedent, but it could be persuasive. Again we will see, if I am wrong.. no harm no foul as I already have watertight points including the Contract of Authority, the SAR omission and the NTK not being POFA complaint. 

 

D_P_Dance

I was under the impression as we're not under Oath in small claims.

I think that one is.  Am I mistaken?  

[Deleted User]

 D_P_Dance said:

I was under the impression as we're not under Oath in small claims.

I think that one is.  Am I mistaken?  

Every single SCC case I've seen and looked up... and my own included... the first thing the judge says is "you're not under oath but its important to tell the truth.. blah blah". 
Perjury required an oath to be taken unless I am very much mistaken. 

D_P_Dance

Well the last time I was in a county court, 10th June 2018, ISTR swearing an oath.   

[Deleted User]

D_P_Dance said:

Well the last time I was in a county court, 10th June 2018, ISTR swearing an oath.   

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim/small-claims-court/ Refers to how you don't have to take an oath. 
Although, to be honest, all Judges seem to do things completely different so I wouldn't be surprised if you did. This is the big problem with Small Claims in general, it's a lottery as to what the judge thinks and how they handle cases.

Which is why some advice on here shouldn't be made with such conviction - one judge may agree, one judge may not. I plan  to have enough decent points it's hard for a judge to not take my side. 

nosferatu1001

Again you seem to not understand what is, and what isnt, evidence
Oral testimony is evidence
Documents properly exhibited and introduced, are evidence
It is up to a judge to weigh evidence from both sides - because this is adversarial - and work out what is the true position
You dont understand what "proof" means here. Yes, there is a burden pf proof! I have never said there isnt! But what YOU think is "proof" is at odds with reality. 
Proof is, can be and HAS BEEN simply someones word for it. The word of a single witness HAS resulted in *criminal* convictions. 
Please just dont think youve found a magic bloody bullet. You havent. At all. Your point is really, really not going anywhere near where you think it is. 
And yes, any "vogue" PPC can take anyone to court at any time. But they have to present a witness statement signed under a statement of truth, and THAT STATEMENT carries a penalty of perjury. The D would likely have evidence of their own in response. 
So please, jsut accept that in this case, your excitement is good,but built from a misunderstanding. What IS rgeat here is you can show their credibiltiy has been damaged - eitehr theyre lying or they are incompetent. Neither shows them to be great witnesses. 
Oh and in case youre wondering, the police have little difficulty securing convictions based on oral testimony alone. They really dont. 

[Deleted User]

Are you comparing the under oath statements of an expert witness (the police) in criminal convictions with VCSs oral statement in a small claims court? And again, no oath = no perjury.

I understand what your saying but my point, which you seem to be missing, is clear... in civil cases the Claimant has an onus of proof on the balance of probabilities that IN PRACTICE means they need to provide a judge evidential documents that an action did happen. To make this clear, this is a de facto point and not de jure. Of course, a  vogue PPC can send absolutely no evidential documents, and the judge can base the case solely on oral statements... but they, as the Claimant, will have little chance of success IN PRACTICE.

Let's look at it sensibly, a Notice to Keeper is an important document and therefore there should be proof it was sent. The courts should not 'take their word for it' that it was sent based on a witness statement signed by a paralegal who wasn't even employed at the time. IN PRACTICE I confidently believe most judges will be uncomfortable 'taking their word for it' when they could have easy obtained postage proof at the time. 

Anyway I'll not put to much into arguing this point in the case, I'll stick with my main arguments as alluded to already. 

Thank you for your input everybody. I'll let you know of the result of the case in due course. 
Take care.
 

Umkomaas

If you get any time to say anything at all in court, I suspect it won't be much more than about 5 minutes. You need to decide what your absolute critical point is in case the Judge calls 'time' on you. 

nosferatu1001

Theyre not an expert, actually. Court experts are very different beasts.They are however trained witnesses. And, again, you seem to think that oral evidence is not evidence. It is. It really, really is. Its even called evidence in chief!
Again: the actual evidence the PPC WILL present is in the WS and exhibits. VCS do not turn up to court, except in the smallest number of cases, because they dont WANT to be questioned in person. Their WS IS under penalty. Have you read the new CPR requirements on the statement yet? Yes or no. Simple question.
Oaths MAY be given. Read your CPRs. Up to the judge. 
"that IN PRACTICE " - no, this is not true. They do not NEED to provide documents. If they state that their processes are x y z and as such the NtK was sent on Y date, then this is evidence. What *proof* do you have that they operate to another standard in courts? Citation please. 
Seriously, youre not right here. I cant explain it more. Ive read dozens of court claims reports and not in a *single one* was proof of postage for a nTK - or the lack thereof - a problem. Bearing in mind THE POLICE dont have to provide proof of postage for a NIP / S172 request, simply a statement about their processing of such, you are so far off the track that your confidence appears to be completely misplaced. 
Seriously, heed the fact youve found literally not one piece of support for your excitement, and realise that you maybe have gone down a rabbit hole here. 
As above - if anyting youre likely to have 10 minutes. Focusing on "proof of postage" would be foolish.