Not able to work due to childcare - Can I get furloughed?

gary83

Yes any employer that meets the qualifying criteria to furlough people may furlough people if they want to, the criteria is;

“If you and your employer both agree, your employer might be able to keep you on the payroll if they’re unable to operate or have no work for you to do because of coronavirus (COVID-19). This is known as being ‘on furlough’.”

Literally the first words of the document, if you don’t meet that criteria you might as well stop reading at that point, you don’t just ignore the opening definition of furlough, imagine it as a flow diagram with yes/no boxes, that would be the first one, you’d fall at the first hurdle

robbiez

"Under the Coronavirus Job Retention Scheme, all UK employers with a PAYE scheme that was created and started on or before 28 February 2020, will be able to access support to continue paying part of their employees’ salary for those that would otherwise have been laid off during this crisis. "
The government absolutely does state that employees are only eligible if they would otherwise be laid off.

gary83

Literally the first words after the contents;

“If you and your employer both agree, your employer might be able to keep you on the payroll if they’re unable to operate or have no work for you to do because of coronavirus (COVID-19). This is known as being ‘on furlough’.”

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/check-if-you-could-be-covered-by-the-coronavirus-job-retention-scheme

robbiez

neilmcl said:

robbiez said:

neilmcl said:

robbiez said:

littlegreenview said:

gary83 said:

you’d be entitled to furlough if due to a lack of work your company would otherwise make you redundant, childcare issues are irrelevant to the entitlement.

Not according to the TV programme last night. 

Martin is currently providing the wrong information, and shouldn't be.
An employer can only furlough an employee if the business is suffering financially due to covid-19.
If the business is not suffering and doesn't want to make staff redundant, they cannot just use the job retention scheme so you can look after your children. You would need to use your holiday entitlement or unpaid leave.

No, I'm afraid you are the one providing the wrong information. The Coronavirus job retention scheme is open to all employers who wish to furlough staff during these times. The priority for the government is get as many people to stay at home as possible and are acutely aware that this puts great pressures on employers.

How do you come to that conclusion?
The job retention scheme is available for all employers to consider, but that doesn't mean they will be eligible and doesn't mean any employee can be furloughed.
The information I have provided is backed by the Government and available on their website:
"If you and your employer both agree, your employer might be able to keep you on the payroll if they’re unable to operate or have no work for you to do because of coronavirus (COVID-19). "
"The Coronavirus Job Retention Scheme is a temporary scheme open to all UK employers for at least three months starting from 1 March 2020. It is designed to support employers whose operations have been severely affected by coronavirus (COVID-19)."

If a business is able to operate, has plenty of work and has not been severely affected by coronvirus, it is not eligible for the job retention scheme. That is based on the current information from the government. I am not saying it is right or wrong, and it may change, but I am saying that information is currently correct.

Please show me exactly where this is stated in black and white? 

Again I refer you to the quote ""Any UK employer with a UK bank account will be able to claim"
and
"Any UK organisation with employees can apply"

The government clearly states you may be eligible "if they're unable to work" or "have no work for you" and "whose operations have been severely affected by coronavirus"
Logically, you will not be eligible if a business is able to operate, have plenty of work and has not severely been affected by coronavirus as these three points are the complete opposite of what the government states will make you eligible.

calcotti

robbiez said:

"Under the Coronavirus Job Retention Scheme, all UK employers with a PAYE scheme that was created and started on or before 28 February 2020, will be able to access support to continue paying part of their employees’ salary for those that would otherwise have been laid off during this crisis. "
The government absolutely does state that employees are only eligible if they would otherwise be laid off.

The details of the scheme published yesterday appear less restrictive than what was said initially
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/claim-for-wage-costs-through-the-coronavirus-job-retention-scheme#employees-you-can-claim-for. Possibly it would be difficult to prove an intent to dismiss and possibly the government want to maximise the number kept in and paid through work rather than pushed unto the benefits system.

If your employee is on unpaid leave
Employees on unpaid leave cannot be furloughed, unless they were placed on unpaid leave after 28 February.

If your employee is on Statutory Sick Pay
Employees on sick leave or self-isolating should get Statutory Sick Pay, but can be furloughed after this.
Employees who are shielding in line with public health guidance can be placed on furlough.

When the government ends the scheme
When the government ends the scheme, you must make a decision, depending on your circumstances, as to whether employees can return to their duties. If not, it may be necessary to consider termination of employment (redundancy)

neilmcl

Any employer is able to put an employee on furlough because by definition they have no work form them and then claim the grant. What part of this is untrue and goes against what Martin Lewis stated (btw I haven't actually seen what he said on TV but I'm assuming this is about being open to all should employer/employee agree). The point being is you will not have to prove that either you are in financial difficulty or that you intended to make staff redundant.

gary83

But the OPs employee does have work for them, he’s just unable to do it as he can’t get childcare, the OP has accepted that, I’m not sure why you’re still disagreeing with the current clear guidance.

robbiez

The details of the scheme published yesterday appear less restrictive than what was said initially
www.gov.uk/guidance/claim-for-wage-costs-through-the-coronavirus-job-retention-scheme#employees-you-can-claim-for. Possibly it would be difficult to prove an intent to dismiss and possibly the government want to maximise the number kept in and paid through work rather than pushed unto the benefits system.

I agree, the terminology did change yesterday and was less restrictive. There is now a suggestion on the government site about those needing to look after children could discuss the possibility of being furloughed. However, I would read this to mean if a business was looking to furlough employees, they should furlough those who need it more. It definitely doesn't say you can be furloughed if you need to look after children when the business doesn’t need/want to furlough any staff.

neilmcl

gary83 said:

But the OPs employee does have work for them, he’s just unable to do it as he can’t get childcare, the OP has accepted that, I’m not sure why you’re still disagreeing with the current clear guidance.

I don't dispute this. I was merely responding to robbiez's assertion that "An employer can only furlough an employee if the business is suffering financially due to covid-19" which in reality and in practice is not the case as has been shown by the published guidelines.

I guess we wont agree on this as our interpretations seem to differ but we will all see in due course. I'll shall leave it there.

gary83

I don’t see how your interpretation could differ from this though:

Yes any employer that meets the qualifying criteria to furlough people may furlough people if they want to, the criteria is;

“If you and your employer both agree, your employer might be able to keep you on the payroll if they’re unable to operate or have no work for you to do because of coronavirus (COVID-19). This is known as being ‘on furlough’.”

Literally the first words of the document, if you don’t meet that criteria you might as well stop reading at that point, you don’t just ignore the opening definition of furlough, imagine it as a flow diagram with yes/no boxes, that would be the first one, you’d fall at the first hurdle


taken from the most recent guidance in the Gov.uk website published yesterday (26 March)
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/check-if-you-could-be-covered-by-the-coronavirus-job-retention-scheme