Furlough agreement wording query

[Deleted User]

Hi all
So my employers have sent me an email with a furlough agreement.  No surprise, i work from home and our industry has ground to a hlat.
I've enclosed the wording below.  Point 4 in bold is the bit that i'm querying as to me it reads like once signed, they are trying to get themselves out of the traditional redundancy process.  Also i didn't think "lay you off " was a bit casual wording as far as contracts went, so just checking all is ok. I've worked for them approaching 7 years so would be entitled to a few quid and a decent notice period on a standard redundancy.
Any help or pointers much appreciated.
Thanks

"This is a variation to your contact of employment, designed to implement and take advantage of the government's Coronavirus Job Retention Scheme.

1. We agree that from 26th March 2020 you shall be on furlough leave.  This means your contract of employment continues, but you shall not be required to come into work.  We will pay you 80% subject to a maximum liability for us of £2,500 per month, including employers contributions and employers pension contribution.

2. Your furlough leave shall end on the earliest of the following events:

a - the Government Coronavirus Job Retention Scheme  scheme ending.

b - either you or us ceasing to be eligible for funding under that scheme

c - us deciding to cancel furlough leave and bring you back to work.

3.  (this is the bit about not working elsewhere, which is fine)

4. When furlough leave ends, while we will always endeavour to provide you with work, in the event of insufficient work being available, you agree we are entitled to place you on short time or lay you off without any pay except for statutory guarantee payments.

47Revisited

They would still need to pay you Statutory Redundancy pay if you were layed off permanently. 

comeandgo

Is 80% of your wage anywhere close to £2,500 as your employer has said that the £2,500 will include employer NI and employer pension contribution so that could take the money you actually get nearer to £2000 before your tax and NI are deducted.

[Deleted User]

Thanks for the replies. I actually got thru to acas helpline who said yep it didn't absolve the company regarding a normal redundancy process.  However they did say something that pricked my ears.  The company could in essence bring us back early, then send us home reasonably soon after meaning we they would only have to pay us statutory guarantee payments of £29 i think, a day for 5 days only.  Our company has farmed out a lot of work to foreign call centres in the last few years so the affected employees in this latest issue are naturally a bit jittery that the company will use this situation to perhaps take advantage.  Think a call to a employment law specialist is in order i think. Any recommendations welcome. 

esskay00

My employer has also added wording to this effect to the furlough agreement. It will give them the option to keep me for longer without paying me. Sadly, due to the situation, I'm unlikely to challenge it as with my employer it won't go anywhere and I need to keep the job for now. It's incredibly aggravating though and potentially means you can only trigger redundancy after not being paid for 4 weeks (I believe it also means you don't get the notice period if you have to request it yourself).

Coveredinbees!!!!

I got the exact wording on the agreement I was sent today, I'm going to ask about it tomorrow before I sign it off.

Masomnia

It'll mean 'lay off' in the technical sense, not be made redundant. They're not the same thing in employment law. If you were made redundant then normal rules and payments would apply.

[Deleted User]

Coveredinbees!!!! said:

I got the exact wording on the agreement I was sent today, I'm going to ask about it tomorrow before I sign it off.

I think what has made us suspect foul play is that my company has invoked the furlough for uk staff but still keeping staff who we use in the phillipines for a third of our wages.  Our concern is that the point i mentioned could give them a way to send us back home again once the furlough is over and then they can rely on the foreign staff without the need to be paying our higher wages.
I've had an email from them tonight actually asking me to sign the form and also theyve enclosed a link to the gov site paragraph where it mentions if an employee refuses to be furloughed etc..  my reply to them tonight was that i wasn't explicitly refusing to be, but i was querying the variation to my contract which now gives them the lay off option, not previously in our contracts.
I'm gonna see how they reply but any pointers on ways forward always gratefully received.  

typewriter

I also received a Furlough Agreement to sign by my employer.  I am concerned regarding paragraph 4.  I think this will be a good way of your employer getting rid of you and blaming Covid-19 for the lack of work, even though there will likely be work they just don't want you back.  I only work part time from home.  I have signed the form and sent it back, I don't agree with it, but there is no one to advise you what to do.  When this is over can we then argue about clause 4 or will it be too late!

[Deleted User]

I'm trying to get advice from my union whch is impossible as theyre overrun at the mo but i'm hoping there is perhaps some kind of "signed under protest" thing i can perhaps do.  

covid19

I've had the same clause inserted into my furlough contract variation which I was put under pressure to agree to and sign within 1 hour of issue, or be made redundant (see #12 in attached picture). I have a 3 month termination notice period in my employment contract, does this new contract variation mean they wouldn't have to pay me my notice if they laid me off after furlough? Very worried about this, hence up at 1am trying to find info, any help greatly appreciated.
Thank you so much