Unable to find Parking Charge Notice

jcarver007

Hi All,

I have gone onto G24 parking to initiate an appeal however after inputting the PCN number and driver reg it comes up as Unable to find your Contractual Parking Charge Notice. This is off the back of receiving a postal parking charge notice with photographic evidence attached from G24.
Any thoughts on how to progress?

D_P_Dance

Yes, consider proceeding thusly

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6116701/let-us-ignore-all-pcns-not-for-milquetoasts/p1

Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams, so consider complaining to your MP, it can cause the scammer extra costs and work, and has been known to get the charge cancelled.

Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, many of whom are former clampers, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

Hopefully, when life gets back to normal, it will become impossible for those scammers who are left to continue their vile trade, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted

Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.

Coupon-mad

No point appealing anyway.  Any other G24 thread will tell you that ONLY a landowner/retailer complaint rids you of this scam at this stage.  Paying it is obviously not given as an option on this forum.

jcarver007

Thanks for the above. I have appealed to the landowner but not had a response - I presume because of the current virus issue. I went and put the pcn in again the other day  and it was recognised  - appeal sent.
I then received an email response from G24 rejecting my appeal as below. No mention of a popla code which I requested so I presume I ignore going to IAS as waste of time and either put in a SAR request  or just ignore till letter before claim arrives.
Thanks in advance.....

"On  <noreply@g24.co.uk> wrote:

Dear Mr ####

RE: Contractual Parking Charge Notice ###########

Thank you for your email.

The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 ("the Act), (Schedule 4), which governs parking on private land, provides a definition for "parking charge" and "adequate notice" of such private parking charges.  The relevant sections of Schedule 4 to the Act state :

        “parking charge”

(a) in the case of a relevant obligation arising under the terms of a relevant contract, means a sum in the nature of a fee or charge, and

(b) in the case of a relevant obligation arising as a result of a trespass or other tort, means a sum in the nature of damages ...

... “relevant obligation” means
(a) an obligation arising under the terms of a relevant contract; or
(b) an obligation arising, in any circumstances where there is no relevant contract, as a result of a trespass or other tort committed by parking the vehicle on the relevant land; ...

... The reference in the definition of “parking charge” to a sum in the nature of damages is to a sum of which adequate notice was given to drivers of vehicles

        (when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land).
        For the purposes of sub-paragraph (2) “adequate notice” means notice given by:
        ... (b) ... the display of one or more notices which
        (i) specify the sum as the charge for unauthorised parking; and
        (ii) are adequate to bring the charge to the notice of drivers who park vehicles on the relevant land".

In this instance a parking charge has been issued based on the fact that the driver of your vehicle entered into a contract with us (by the act of parking the vehicle) and our signage (which states the terms and conditions of parking) having been clearly displayed in the car park.

The Act permits parking charges to be rendered on private land, and the case of Parking Eye Limited v Somerfield Stores Limited [2012] EWCA Civ 1338 (Court of Appeal) held that (taking into account inflation) the parking company was entitled to claim a parking charge of a similar amount to that which we have charged, and therefore your reference to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 is not of any relevance in the context of this parking charge.

You should also be aware that the amount of our parking charges accords within recommendations by our Trade Associations.

You received a parking charge because the driver breached the terms and conditions of parking - and is therefore liable to pay the amount of a parking charge stated on our signage.  We also refer you to Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act, which sets out the legal basis upon which we may demand payment from the vehicle’s registered keeper if the driver fails to pay us the parking charge.

The photographs provide evidence of the parking event that occurred which show that the driver breached the terms and conditions of parking which were clearly displayed on the signage in the car park. If you wish to receive further documentation, these will be supplied once you make a proper request under the Data Protection Act.  The fact that such documentation might be used in any Court proceedings is not a legitimate way to circumvent the Data Protection Act.

A copy of our signage will be provided in any Court proceedings and a copy of our terms and conditions is clearly stated on the Notice to Keeper you have received.

As your appeal has been rejected, any further correspondence may not receive a  response, the options below are still open to you.

You now have one of the following options available to you:

1. Pay the outstanding Parking Charge. Payment of your Contractual Parking Charge Notice can be made via the payment line: 0333 733 3000 or by sending a cheque or postal order to G24 Limited, PO Box 3320, Gerrards Cross, Buckinghamshire, SL9 8WT.

2. If you believe this decision is incorrect, you are entitled to appeal to The Independent Appeals Service (www.theIAS.org), The Independent Appeals Service provides an Alternative Dispute Resolution scheme for disputes of this type. As you have complied with our internal appeals procedure you may use, and we will engage with, the The Independent Appeals Service Standard Appeals Service providing you lodge an appeal to them within 21 days of your first rejection.

3. If you choose to do nothing, we will seek to recover the monies owed to us via our debt recovery procedures and may proceed with Court action against you.

Customer Services
G24 Ltd

To Pay your Parking Charge visit http://www.payyourcharge.co.uk or call our payment line on 0845 452 7777.

DO NOT REPLY TO THIS EMAIL, if you wish to continue your appeal visit our appeals website at http://www.appealyourcharge.co.uk.

Thanks in advance...

D_P_Dance

 so I presume I ignore going to IAS as waste of time and either put in a SAR request  or just ignore till letter before claim arrives.

Yes

Umkomaas

No mention of a popla code which I requested

You were never going to get one - G24 are members of the IPC Approved Operator Scheme, not the BPA AOS. 

The G24 response, full of 'legal points' that they won't even understand, is a template we've seen many times before. They have started taking a small number of punts at issuing court proceedings, but all defendable. Keep your wits about you for a Letter of Claim or a formal court claim via the Northampton CCBC. If you move address in the next 6 years, you must inform G24 of that change. 

jcarver007

Thankyou for your time taken in replying on this - it is much appreciated.
I have received the below following my SAR request. I'll wait to see if they issue any other letters.
Of interest was their comment of " If the terms are breached, we have a contract with you and/or a legitimate interest to pursue you for the additional charges." Surely they cannot prove that they have entered into any contract or have any legitimate interest with the registered keeper.

"Thank you for your recent correspondence.
Thank you for your web appeal which was received on # April 2020.
Your request in your appeal has been interpreted here as a “subject access request” at this stage, we believe that you require “copies” of information that we retain and/or have shared with other organisations.  This is not a “data portability” request as far as we can tell.  If we have misinterpreted your request, please contact us again.
We encourage you, if not done so already, in the first instance to review our privacy statement which outlines the reason for the collection of your data www.g24.co.uk/privacy-notice <http://www.g24.co.uk/privacy-notice>.  If you need a printed copy, please let us know and we will send this to you.  This outlines why we collect the data and the lawful justification for us to be entitled to do so.  In principle, by entering the car park at  Crawley you entered into a contract with the terms noted at the site.  If the terms are breached, we have a contract with you and/or a legitimate interest to pursue you for the additional charges. 

In your case, we confirm the following process has been taken and that your details are recorded as follows:

1.      ANPR; Images of your vehicle are shown on your Parking Charge Notice.
2.      DVLA; The registered keepers information as supplied by the DVLA is also contained within your Parking Charge Notice

In terms of the data that you have provided us through the breach of the terms of the contract, the data that has come from your registration number is as follows:
1.      Registered keeper; ########
2.      Address the vehicle is registered; ######
3.      Make/model/colour; #########
4.      Registration; #########
At this stage there are very few emails or communications that make reference with your name and we have reviewed our system and we include the following copies for you:

1.      Contractual Parking Charge Notice
2.      Web Appeal Dated ######
3.      Web Appeal Response  Dated  ######
4.      Web Appeal Dated #######
If you are unhappy with this response you can contact the ICO, their details are provided below.
<https://ico.org.uk/make-a-complaint/>
Help Line: 03031231113
As your appeal has been rejected, any further correspondence may not receive a  response, the options below are still open to you.
You now have one of the following options available to you:
1. Pay the outstanding Parking Charge. Payment of your Contractual Parking Charge Notice can be made via the payment line: 0333 733 3000 or by sending a cheque or postal order to G24 Limited, PO Box 3320, Gerrards Cross, Buckinghamshire, SL9 8WT.
2. If you believe this decision is incorrect, you are entitled to appeal to The Independent Appeals Service (www.theIAS.org), The Independent Appeals Service provides an Alternative Dispute Resolution scheme for disputes of this type. As you have complied with our internal appeals procedure you may use, and we will engage with, the The Independent Appeals Service Standard Appeals Service providing you lodge an appeal to them within 21 days of your first rejection.
3. If you choose to do nothing, we will seek to recover the monies owed to us via our debt recovery procedures and may proceed with Court action against you.
Customer Services
G24 Ltd

Umkomaas

Of interest was their comment of " If the terms are breached, we have a contract with you and/or a legitimate interest to pursue you for the additional charges." Surely they cannot prove that they have entered into any contract or have any legitimate interest with the registered keeper.

They don't really have to. The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (Schedule 4) provides them with the capacity. But they have to meet all of its requirements to hold the keeper liable.