To sell or not

QuackQuackOops

Flyonthewall said:

mgdavid said:

Flyonthewall said:

mgdavid said:

I go to the Post Office counter and hand over one or more parcels without touching anything or anybody, with a glass screen between me and the counter staff, pay with contactless card and then walk home.

Yeah, but after that the parcel goes through a whole chain of people before reaching the buyer. You may be fine and not have come into contact with anyone, but you or anyone down the line handling the parcel could pass on the virus unknowingly through the parcel. Plus others may have to have to contact with each other.

Then you're hoping it goes straight to the buyer, not to a neighbour as either the buyer or the neighbour may not be sensible and either could have the virus and pass it on, or the neighbour just having handled it could pass it on when they hand it to the buyer.

You can be fine and do everything to protect yourself. Doesn't mean that someone else isn't going to be ill or even die from you doing that though.

That's the risk the buyer is taking - nobody is making them buy from me. Neither am I 'hoping it goes straight to the buyer', once in the delivery system it's neither within my control or responsibility. I cannot be responsible for everyone else in the world, they need to be responsible for themselves in the same way I take responsibility for myself. Grown-up stuff.

They're taking it because they either haven't thought about it or just don't care. By selling non-essential items you're allowing it to happen so are just as responsible. By selling the items you are part of the problem. Don't sell, they can't buy, less people die.

Why would you not want to do whatever you can to reduce the risk of thousands of people dying, especially when it's something so simple? 

Where has this term "non essential items" come from?
Who decides what is and isn't essential?
I think it is a loose term....and specifically used as such so people can use it to deem what is or isn't essential for themselves.
For my Mother a jigsaw is essential.
She can't walk. She's in her 80s and can't do anything else as she only has the use of one hand. It's all she does.
Would you castigate me for buying her a jigsaw on eBay?
Where is the risk to "thousands of people"?
Hyperbole....nothing more' nothing less

QuackQuackOops

Flyonthewall said:

RFW said:

Flyonthewall said:

I think people need to be careful, think things through and consider others as well as themselves. The Government, despite many warnings, were slow to act and may not cover all risks, especially for things that are harder to enforce/police. Knowing something is a risk and making sure you're safe and doing your best to reduce risks to save lives is more important than whether the Government have yet to bring out a specific rule for something.

I don't see anything I'm doing as a risk beyond me going out for a walk. I'll stick with government advice rather than stop working and give up my business to my competitors who will all still be trading.

Well I keep explaining the risk. It's not complicated. Anyone involved in the process of sending mail could have the virus and pass it on via the parcel or through interactions. 

You personally may not be at risk, you may be following advice by not interacting, but that doesn't mean your actions won't lead to someone getting the virus which is killing thousands. You'd never know, but that doesn't mean it hasn't happened or won't happen.

I feel i have to point it out to you but this virus ia NOT "killing thousands"
1000s have died who HAVE the virus. And we know this because it is a notifiable disease and patients who are in hospital are tested for it.
They may HAVE the virus but not many have actually died OF the virus.

It is not very contagious....likelihood of getting it is slim.....and if anyone did...chance are they won't even know.

Please don't scaremonger

Flyonthewall

QuackQuackOops said:

Flyonthewall said:

mgdavid said:

Flyonthewall said:

mgdavid said:

I go to the Post Office counter and hand over one or more parcels without touching anything or anybody, with a glass screen between me and the counter staff, pay with contactless card and then walk home.

Yeah, but after that the parcel goes through a whole chain of people before reaching the buyer. You may be fine and not have come into contact with anyone, but you or anyone down the line handling the parcel could pass on the virus unknowingly through the parcel. Plus others may have to have to contact with each other.

Then you're hoping it goes straight to the buyer, not to a neighbour as either the buyer or the neighbour may not be sensible and either could have the virus and pass it on, or the neighbour just having handled it could pass it on when they hand it to the buyer.

You can be fine and do everything to protect yourself. Doesn't mean that someone else isn't going to be ill or even die from you doing that though.

That's the risk the buyer is taking - nobody is making them buy from me. Neither am I 'hoping it goes straight to the buyer', once in the delivery system it's neither within my control or responsibility. I cannot be responsible for everyone else in the world, they need to be responsible for themselves in the same way I take responsibility for myself. Grown-up stuff.

They're taking it because they either haven't thought about it or just don't care. By selling non-essential items you're allowing it to happen so are just as responsible. By selling the items you are part of the problem. Don't sell, they can't buy, less people die.

Why would you not want to do whatever you can to reduce the risk of thousands of people dying, especially when it's something so simple? 

Where has this term "non essential items" come from?
Who decides what is and isn't essential?
I think it is a loose term....and specifically used as such so people can use it to deem what is or isn't essential for themselves.
For my Mother a jigsaw is essential.
She can't walk. She's in her 80s and can't do anything else as she only has the use of one hand. It's all she does.
Would you castigate me for buying her a jigsaw on eBay?
Where is the risk to "thousands of people"?
Hyperbole....nothing more' nothing less

The Government.

Again, the Government.

Surely she already has jigsaws she could do if she likes jigsaws?

Seriously, was everyone living in an empty house before this or are you all just trying to justify buying products you know you could do without?

Lots of people handling things, very infectious virus, stays on surfaces, anyone could have it in the chain between the seller and buyer (they pass it on, that person passes it on etc.).

Most of the world is on lockdown, it's not for fun. It's a serious thing. Royal Mail and couriers are doing all they can to protect themselves, but they are at risk and have said so themselves (https://www.royalmail.com/d8/coronavirus-protection). They wouldn't be taking such measures to stay safe if there was nothing to stay safe from! So again, every parcel sold/bought poses a risk to Royal Mail workers, couriers, warehouse staff and anyone else handling the parcels.

Flyonthewall

QuackQuackOops said:

Flyonthewall said:

RFW said:

Flyonthewall said:

I think people need to be careful, think things through and consider others as well as themselves. The Government, despite many warnings, were slow to act and may not cover all risks, especially for things that are harder to enforce/police. Knowing something is a risk and making sure you're safe and doing your best to reduce risks to save lives is more important than whether the Government have yet to bring out a specific rule for something.

I don't see anything I'm doing as a risk beyond me going out for a walk. I'll stick with government advice rather than stop working and give up my business to my competitors who will all still be trading.

Well I keep explaining the risk. It's not complicated. Anyone involved in the process of sending mail could have the virus and pass it on via the parcel or through interactions. 

You personally may not be at risk, you may be following advice by not interacting, but that doesn't mean your actions won't lead to someone getting the virus which is killing thousands. You'd never know, but that doesn't mean it hasn't happened or won't happen.

I feel i have to point it out to you but this virus ia NOT "killing thousands"
1000s have died who HAVE the virus. And we know this because it is a notifiable disease and patients who are in hospital are tested for it.
They may HAVE the virus but not many have actually died OF the virus.

It is not very contagious....likelihood of getting it is slim.....and if anyone did...chance are they won't even know.

Please don't scaremonger

Most would not have died had the not caught the virus. Otherwise healthy people have died from this virus. It IS killing people!

It's very contagious! As an example, the flu infects 1.3 new people per infected person whereas this infects between 2 to 3 people per infected person. It's also worse because you may not show symptoms, but can pass it on and the other person could be seriously ill or die from it. Just because one person had it very mild does not mean the next person will.

The likelihood is getting slimmer (hopefully) due to lockdown, provided you stay at home and follow the rules.

You clearly haven't read any news or science page...

mgdavid

Flyonthewall - is this a 5 minute argument, or have you paid for the full half-hour?

(with apologies to the Python crew)

RFW

mgdavid said:

Flyonthewall - is this a 5 minute argument, or have you paid for the full half-hour?

(with apologies to the Python crew)

I think they're arguing in their own time now.

soolin

Postage can actually bring people together as well one of the selling groups I use has stopped adverts for collection items and is allowing posted items to go ahead. An elderly lady asked if there were any teapots available as she was housebound and in isolation and  had several pounds of loose tea and her cat had just knocked her only china teapot off the unit . She was really upset, not making her usual pots of tea was the final straw , she could cope on her own but losing her teapot was just about it as far as she was concerned.

I have teapots as they turn up in every mixed box I buy, so I showed her the ones I had and posted her choice out on Wednesday and it arrived today. She offered to pay postage but had no idea how she was going to manage it so I’m obviously not bothered. Apparently she is going to knit me some gloves to say thank you ! 

Someone else has posted baby clothes to a new mum, others have swapped books for children by post , it’s a real community effort . 

Spoonie_Turtle

QuackQuackOops said:

Flyonthewall said:

RFW said:

Flyonthewall said:

I think people need to be careful, think things through and consider others as well as themselves. The Government, despite many warnings, were slow to act and may not cover all risks, especially for things that are harder to enforce/police. Knowing something is a risk and making sure you're safe and doing your best to reduce risks to save lives is more important than whether the Government have yet to bring out a specific rule for something.

I don't see anything I'm doing as a risk beyond me going out for a walk. I'll stick with government advice rather than stop working and give up my business to my competitors who will all still be trading.

Well I keep explaining the risk. It's not complicated. Anyone involved in the process of sending mail could have the virus and pass it on via the parcel or through interactions. 

You personally may not be at risk, you may be following advice by not interacting, but that doesn't mean your actions won't lead to someone getting the virus which is killing thousands. You'd never know, but that doesn't mean it hasn't happened or won't happen.

I feel i have to point it out to you but this virus ia NOT "killing thousands"
1000s have died who HAVE the virus. And we know this because it is a notifiable disease and patients who are in hospital are tested for it.
They may HAVE the virus but not many have actually died OF the virus.

It is not very contagious....likelihood of getting it is slim.....and if anyone did...chance are they won't even know.

Please don't scaremonger

Um, over 3000 people in the UK alone have died from complications that are a direct result of the virus. It IS very contagious, precisely because people are infectious even before symptoms - and while most who will be ill from it will have mild or almost no symptoms, there is no way to predict who *exactly* will get away with a sniffle and who will end up needing ventilator support and on the brink of death. Compare the 100+-year old woman who has recovered from it, and the 13-yr old boy who had no underlying conditions but still died. And it's killing frontline medical staff who are literally giving their lives to treat others.

The point is, if people don't take it seriously - in general, I'm not specifically referring to posting, in saying this - it gets transmitted far and wide, and the people who are the most likely to develop severe complications are relying on everyone else to take the necessary precautions! PLEASE, if you think it's necessary to post something, take ALL precautions you can. We ALL need to do what we can to contain this.

RFW

Spoonie_Turtle said:

Um, over 3000 people in the UK alone have died from complications that are a direct result of the virus. It IS very contagious, precisely because people are infectious even before symptoms - and while most who will be ill from it will have mild or almost no symptoms, there is no way to predict who *exactly* will get away with a sniffle and who will end up needing ventilator support and on the brink of death. Compare the 100+-year old woman who has recovered from it, and the 13-yr old boy who had no underlying conditions but still died. And it's killing frontline medical staff who are literally giving their lives to treat others.

The point is, if people don't take it seriously - in general, I'm not specifically referring to posting, in saying this - it gets transmitted far and wide, and the people who are the most likely to develop severe complications are relying on everyone else to take the necessary precautions! PLEASE, if you think it's necessary to post something, take ALL precautions you can. We ALL need to do what we can to contain this.

Agreed. I think we've gone to either extremes on this thread.

I was calculating earlier that as a result of still working I've probably had less contact than I would have had had I not been. I've managed to be quite creative in getting food delivered so haven't needed to go out to shop. My only outing is to the postbox and back. I saw 6 people this morning and they were all well over 10 metres away.

Flyonthewall

Spoonie_Turtle said:

QuackQuackOops said:

Flyonthewall said:

RFW said:

Flyonthewall said:

I think people need to be careful, think things through and consider others as well as themselves. The Government, despite many warnings, were slow to act and may not cover all risks, especially for things that are harder to enforce/police. Knowing something is a risk and making sure you're safe and doing your best to reduce risks to save lives is more important than whether the Government have yet to bring out a specific rule for something.

I don't see anything I'm doing as a risk beyond me going out for a walk. I'll stick with government advice rather than stop working and give up my business to my competitors who will all still be trading.

Well I keep explaining the risk. It's not complicated. Anyone involved in the process of sending mail could have the virus and pass it on via the parcel or through interactions. 

You personally may not be at risk, you may be following advice by not interacting, but that doesn't mean your actions won't lead to someone getting the virus which is killing thousands. You'd never know, but that doesn't mean it hasn't happened or won't happen.

I feel i have to point it out to you but this virus ia NOT "killing thousands"
1000s have died who HAVE the virus. And we know this because it is a notifiable disease and patients who are in hospital are tested for it.
They may HAVE the virus but not many have actually died OF the virus.

It is not very contagious....likelihood of getting it is slim.....and if anyone did...chance are they won't even know.

Please don't scaremonger

Um, over 3000 people in the UK alone have died from complications that are a direct result of the virus. It IS very contagious, precisely because people are infectious even before symptoms - and while most who will be ill from it will have mild or almost no symptoms, there is no way to predict who *exactly* will get away with a sniffle and who will end up needing ventilator support and on the brink of death. Compare the 100+-year old woman who has recovered from it, and the 13-yr old boy who had no underlying conditions but still died. And it's killing frontline medical staff who are literally giving their lives to treat others.

The point is, if people don't take it seriously - in general, I'm not specifically referring to posting, in saying this - it gets transmitted far and wide, and the people who are the most likely to develop severe complications are relying on everyone else to take the necessary precautions! PLEASE, if you think it's necessary to post something, take ALL precautions you can. We ALL need to do what we can to contain this.

Exactly! Thank you.

I said it before, it is hard for everyone. I get people wanting to keep their businesses going - not doing can mean a drop in income, possibly struggling financially for a while and they themselves may be (or at least feel) healthy and so stopping work seems daft. However, there's a whole world out there and it's about keeping everyone safe. This is, sadly, a very real threat and, as you say, even young healthy people can end up dying from it. 

I don't want to be arguing with people about it all, I just want everyone to think more about their actions. If everyone did that all the time the world would be a much better place, but it's far more important now than ever.