Litter Fine

ratmin

Hi,

I was in the town center today and as i stood outside a shop eating my sandwich i noticed a pigeon hobbling past me looking for food. I felt a bit sorry for him so i threw him a piece of bread which he ate. Within 30 seconds i had an enforcement officer come over and tell me he was issuing me with a £150 for littering. I was absolutely gobsmacked and initially refused to give my details over. He said that would be an offence which would incur an extra fine plus he would call the police so i gave him my name and address. He then issued me with a fixed penalty notice and i left. After arriving home i have noticed on the ticket that he has written the time as 01.48. Now he hasn't written AM or PM so im treating the time as a 24 hour clock in which case he is stating the offence was committed in the early hours of the morning which is completely wrong. Can i challenge this on the grounds that the offence(if you can even call it that) did not occur at the time written.

thank you

eddddy

ratmin said:

After arriving home i have noticed on the ticket that he has written the time as 01.48. Now he hasn't written AM or PM so im treating the time as a 24 hour clock in which case he is stating the offence was committed in the early hours of the morning which is completely wrong. Can i challenge this on the grounds that the offence(if you can even call it that) did not occur at the time written.

Probably not. If you put forward a defence that "I wasn't there at 01:48am" the enforcement officer would just say in a statement that the offence happened at 01:48pm (and not 01:48am).

But perhaps you might have more luck by saying you weren't littering, you put a piece of bread on the ground for the pigeon to eat. And had the pigeon not eaten it, you would have immediately picked up the piece of bread again.

(I believe the guidance is that you should only get a ticket if you drop litter and then move away, so it is clear that you are not planning to pick it up again.)

ratmin

There is no right of appeal. You can only email or discuss the issue with the Council itself.

davidmcn

I suspect you'll find that litter enforcement officers aren't at work at 1.48am, in which case it's obvious it means 1.48pm.

ratmin

Yeah but then again neither are parking attendants but i watched a programme where the adjudicator ruled a PCN invalid because the PA had written 02.30(instead of 14.30) on the ticket but there was no way this old lady could have been at this location at that time. 

unholyangel

personally, I would have just told him i was feeding my pet pigeon Pedro.

I'm not convinced bread would meet the definition of litter though, not even with the definition including discarded chewing gum or other products designed for chewing. Bread might be able to be chewed, but I'd say its designed for eating, not chewing. While chewing gum might be able to be eaten, but is designed for chewing and not eating. You don't eat gum for sustenance. 

Hermione_Granger

unholyangel said:

I'm not convinced bread would meet the definition of litter though, not even with the definition including discarded chewing gum or other products designed for chewing.

According to the Government code of practice on littering (not legislation, purely guidance):
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/834331/pb11577b-cop-litter1.pdf
bread would class as litter.

5.2 Litter is most commonly assumed to include materials, often associated with smoking, eating and drinking, that are improperly discarded and left by members of the public; or are spilt during business operations as well as waste management operations

However, littering is only an offence if the litter is put down and left so if a bird took it all away, technically no offence.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1990/43/section/87

(1)A person is guilty of an offence if he throws down, drops or otherwise deposits any litter in any place to which this section applies and leaves it.

Personally, I would fight it stating that there was no food left behind so no littering took place.

ratmin

I suppose the part you are referring to is this bit:-

'87 Offence of leaving litter.E+W
[F1(1)A person is guilty of an offence if he throws down, drops or otherwise deposits any litter in any place to which this section applies and leaves it.'

Technically the council might argue that i put down the bread and left it........... even though it was eaten by a bird.

unholyangel

Hermione_Granger said:

unholyangel said:

I'm not convinced bread would meet the definition of litter though, not even with the definition including discarded chewing gum or other products designed for chewing.

According to the Government code of practice on littering (not legislation, purely guidance):
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/834331/pb11577b-cop-litter1.pdf
bread would class as litter.

5.2 Litter is most commonly assumed to include materials, often associated with smoking, eating and drinking, that are improperly discarded and left by members of the public; or are spilt during business operations as well as waste management operations

However, littering is only an offence if the litter is put down and left so if a bird took it all away, technically no offence.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1990/43/section/87

(1)A person is guilty of an offence if he throws down, drops or otherwise deposits any litter in any place to which this section applies and leaves it.

Personally, I would fight it stating that there was no food left behind so no littering took place.

That guidance is for the obligations placed on the landowners in relation to litter, refuse & fly tipping, not for the enforcement of dropping litter. 

1.1 The Environmental Protection Act 1990 imposes duties under section 89(1) and (2) on certain landowners and occupiers (referred to throughout as ‘duty bodies’ and described in detail at section 3.2) to keep specified land clear of litter and refuse, and on local authorities and the Secretary of State to keep clean public highways for which they are responsible. This document provides a practical guide to the discharge of these duties.

It also says items associated with food or drink that is improperly discarded. It doesn't actually say food is litter. 

Takmon

ratmin said:

Hi,

I was in the town center today and as i stood outside a shop eating my sandwich i noticed a pigeon hobbling past me looking for food. I felt a bit sorry for him so i threw him a piece of bread which he ate. Within 30 seconds i had an enforcement officer come over and tell me he was issuing me with a £150 for littering. I was absolutely gobsmacked and initially refused to give my details over. He said that would be an offence which would incur an extra fine plus he would call the police so i gave him my name and address. He then issued me with a fixed penalty notice and i left. After arriving home i have noticed on the ticket that he has written the time as 01.48. Now he hasn't written AM or PM so im treating the time as a 24 hour clock in which case he is stating the offence was committed in the early hours of the morning which is completely wrong. Can i challenge this on the grounds that the offence(if you can even call it that) did not occur at the time written.

thank you

Bread is very poor food for Pigeons and if lots of people feed them bread it's actually quite bad for them because if they fill up on bread they won't get the required nutrients they need to be healthy. Also feeding them in public areas encourages them to continue to look for food in these areas which will mean they are more likely to be fed the wrong food plus they can cause a nuisance in large numbers. 

born_again

Are there any no feeding the pigeon signs up. Which many towns now put up?