Can i extend into my neighbors loft?

Williams59

Hi All,

 I own a leasehold purpose built property which is split into four flats, two up two down.

 I own one of the top floor flats. Both top floor flats own the demise of their respective loft space and there is a clear wall divide between the two top flats loft space.

 I've recently got planning permission to build a dormer extension on my section of the roof and was about to go ahead but I've realized my neighbor is now selling his flat. Id like to make him an offer to purchase either some of or all of his loft space leasehold so that in addition to the works I was planning on doing I can also expand my floorplan onto the neighbors loft space (this would all be internal works so no additional planning permission required).

 If I purchase the neighbors loft space am I allowed to build above their flat?

 I'm aware il need to get the freeholders permission (an large freeholding company) and ensure our build adheres to sound proofing regulations. Are there any other things I'd need to consider?

 I've read a little about flying freeholds but not heard anything about a flying Leaseholds. I'm aware that financing is difficult for this sort of project but in my case we will be self-financing the works.

 Id appreciate any advise

 Thanks!

Laura

thearchitect

I can't comment on freehold/leashold issues as that's not an issue for those of us who live/work in Scotland, but would say that achieving acceptable fire and acoustic seperation under the (English) Building Regulations would be a challenge.  My recollection (possibly flawed) is that Building Control would look for sixty minutes both sides where in different occupation.

AdrianC

Williams59 said:

I've read a little about flying freeholds but not heard anything about a flying Leaseholds.

That's because a freehold is normally the ground plus whatever's on it, so a situation where a bit of somebody else's freehold is over yours is an unusual situation.

A leasehold flat is much more of a 3d thing. Your lease covers everything it says it does - up/down, left/right, fore/aft. Your lease is your flat, not the flat beneath you.

Next door is going to need to deal with the freeholder over splitting their lease into two. They'll simply create a new lease for the flat (minus loft), and either a new one for your flat (plus both lofts) or leave your existing one as is and create a new one for just that loft (so you'd then own two leases - your flat plus your loft, then the other loft.

And that's before we get into the practicalities, planning, BR, etc.

davidmcn

If the neighbour and freeholder are happy to agree, no reason in principle why it can't be done. Flats by definition tend to be "flying leaseholds" anyway.
Has the freeholder consented to the originally-proposed works? (assuming their consent is needed)
May raise queries about how common costs ought to be apportioned once you have a bigger flat than everyone else and your neighbour has a smaller one.

greatcrested

What is the likely impact on the value of the neighbour's flat? If he's selling, I'd be surprised he'd agree unless you are prepared to pay a very meaningful price.

Similarly, the freeholder is unlikely to agree without some compensation, in addition to the legal costs of the new leases. In addition to the new lease(s), the freeholder will need to approve the plans too.

All this will take time. What is the neighbour's sale time-table? I doubt he'll be willing to postpone/delay his sale.

Planning should not be an issue I don't think, though Building Regs will, particularly the fire and sound-proofing aspects of the flying.... errr.... leasehold!

PasturesNew

I'd not sell it to you.  It'd make what's left of his flat "unsellable" with all that palaver going on.

cymruchris

You could just buy the entire flat -do what you wanted to do reference the legals/paperwork etc - as you wouldn't object to yourself - then get the work done  - and then when all was completed, you could rent out the flat for a bit of side income  

AdrianC

PasturesNew said:

I'd not sell it to you.  It'd make what's left of his flat "unsellable" with all that palaver going on.

Will it? It'll not be any different to the same flat a floor below.

Williams59

thanks for the above comments, its really useful to hear your views.

I was planning of getting a surveyor in to value the stretch of loft and offering a fair price with regard to the cost impact to the neighbors property sale, up to a maximum of £10k. To me this sounds like a good deal for the neighbor who is selling (rather than living there after) as the space i'm after is not so much the whole loft but a long and thin quadrant with a slanted roof...you wouldn't be able to build a bedroom here unless one neighbor bought out the other. 

This would increase my existing conversion plan from a 1 double bedroom loft to a 2 double bedroom loft. This would also work out cheaper than moving as i like my property and its location, property prices have stepped up in the area over the last couple of years so id have to move further away in order to get more space. 

Perhaps its worth arranging the purchase of space with the current neighbor who is selling and wait to do the works when the new buyers have moved in? This way it does not jeopardize the sale of my neighbors flat. Would the new owners be able to reject the plans once they moved in?

greatcrested

No they could not reject the plans if approved by the council, freeholder and seller (owner of flat below).

But ould they even buy if they knew a) they would not be gettinthe loft an b) they'd have oput up with the noise etc of renovation as soon as hey move in? If I was a prospective buyer, as soon as I found out (during the conveyancing process) I'd significantly reduce my offer.

Williams59

cymruchris said:

You could just buy the entire flat -do what you wanted to do reference the legals/paperwork etc - as you wouldn't object to yourself - then get the work done  - and then when all was completed, you could rent out the flat for a bit of side income  

i wish i could afford it!