Edf back billing

MWT

dogshome said:

Well, that seems to back up the " With no Smart Meter input,Computer Estimates Readings" scenario - Check the bills up to March 2019 for Estimated readings

I'm not sure it does, if the final bill was produced using the accurate final readings as it was said to have been done and there was an amount payable at that time, any earlier estimated readings would already have been taken into account, even if such estimates existed.

The only problem seems to be that a refund was processed with no apparent justification and now they are seeking to reverse the refund...

lemon45

Thanks all for the replies. I totally agree with MWT, my father's bill was produced using the actual reads on the day he moved out. However,  if they are asking for the refund back, then shouldn't it be for the same amount? And not £20 extra? The refund was for £755 and the new bill is for £775.

MWT said:

dogshome said:

Well, that seems to back up the " With no Smart Meter input,Computer Estimates Readings" scenario - Check the bills up to March 2019 for Estimated readings

I'm not sure it does, if the final bill was produced using the accurate final readings as it was said to have been done and there was an amount payable at that time, any earlier estimated readings would already have been taken into account, even if such estimates existed.

The only problem seems to be that a refund was processed with no apparent justification and now they are seeking to reverse the refund...

MWT said:

dogshome said:

Well, that seems to back up the " With no Smart Meter input,Computer Estimates Readings" scenario - Check the bills up to March 2019 for Estimated readings

I'm not sure it does, if the final bill was produced using the accurate final readings as it was said to have been done and there was an amount payable at that time, any earlier estimated readings would already have been taken into account, even if such estimates existed.

The only problem seems to be that a refund was processed with no apparent justification and now they are seeking to reverse the refund...

MWT

lemon45 said:

Thanks all for the replies. I totally agree with MWT, my father's bill was produced using the actual reads on the day he moved out. However,  if they are asking for the refund back, then shouldn't it be for the same amount? And not £20 extra? The refund was for £755 and the new bill is for £775.

Agreed, the same amount would make more sense, but the similarity in totals seems too close to ignore, especially when there seems to be no reason for the original refund in the first place....

I would suggest asking them for a statement of his account so you can see exactly how they are getting to the £775 figure, but it feels like it is going to be a hard one to argue against since you don't have any reason to have expected the refund at the time, or it would seem any coherent explanation from them as to why it was due then, but not now....

lemon45

Hi all, this is an update,
My father has just received a reply from Edf which states,
"Your account has been assessed under the Back Billing Code and unfortunately in this case it does not apply. This is because we had previously billed you correctly before a revised bill was issued, resulting in a refund of £767.65.

 I appreciate it has been 12 months since you moved out of the property therefore we would be happy to offer time to repay the balance. In order to compensate for the error and the rebill of £775.78 I would be happy to reduce the balance to £700.

 Please let me know by return email if you would be happy to accept this offer."

I am a little confused as to why the 12 month back billing does not apply, as it has been more than 12 months. My father would now like to take it further to the ombudsman because he has always provided actual meter reads every quarter. Also, he has all the chat transcripts where the edf chat agents assure him that his account will be settled and closed.

Does anyone know what he should do, this is causing him alot of stress. 

MWT

lemon45 said:

I am a little confused as to why the 12 month back billing does not apply, as it has been more than 12 months.

It wasn't more than 12 months from the date of the incorrect refund though when they first asked for the payment was it?

I'm not sure I can see any grounds for the ombudsman to rule in your fathers favour as they are entitled to correct billing errors within 12 months and it looks like they just got that bill done in time...

lemon45

Hi, 
I don't actually think it's about the 12 month mark, but about principle. What I mean to say is that throughout the whole 12 month billing period my father always gave actual readings and was billed based on these readings. He paid these bills on time. When he moved out of the property he provided the last meter read and was billed. The new bill has the same readings that he gave that the new tenants provided. The readings both match. When the refund was given last year my father questioned edf, but they kept reassuring him that it was due to him. The edf agent kept saying "don't worry Mr, Xxx this refund is due to you we will send it to your account. This is the final bill and your account will be closed. Now,  a year later they send this new bill, totally unexpected. It has been 11 months and so many days, and they have the nerve to say that it's not the 12 month mark. How is a pensioner who has a low pension income supposed to pay this unexpected amount. They say he can pay in installments but how is he to manage this? 

MWT

I do understand the frustration, and I'd certainly be appealing to their better judgement not to pursue this since the optics are certainly poor from their perspective, but if they want to ignore the potential for publicity I just can't see a way to legally avoid the repayment, unless, perhaps, any of the debate around the unexpected refund was clear and in writing stating that the money was indeed owed to him... ?   If you had that then there is a case to be made that he relied upon their representations when he accepted the refund and in further reliance on those representations he spent the money and so no longer has the ability to return it to them now they have changed their minds...  It is frankly still a weak argument, but better than no argument at all...

Ultimately the problem is down to accepting a refund that nobody could give a coherent explanation for and then spending it instead of just putting it aside for 12 months to let the back-billing time limit expire...

lemon45

Thanks for your reply.  My father had no clue about the back billing rules. It was me who searched online and found out about it now. 

lemon45

MWT said:

I do understand the frustration, and I'd certainly be appealing to their better judgement not to pursue this since the optics are certainly poor from their perspective, but if they want to ignore the potential for publicity I just can't see a way to legally avoid the repayment, unless, perhaps, any of the debate around the unexpected refund was clear and in writing stating that the money was indeed owed to him... ?   If you had that then there is a case to be made that he relied upon their representations when he accepted the refund and in further reliance on those representations he spent the money and so no longer has the ability to return it to them now they have changed their minds...  It is frankly still a weak argument, but better than no argument at all...

Ultimately the problem is down to accepting a refund that nobody could give a coherent explanation for and then spending it instead of just putting it aside for 12 months to let the back-billing time limit expire...

The only thing regarding the refund in writing are the chat transcripts that were made, saying that the refund was owed to him.

MWT

lemon45 said:

The only thing regarding the refund in writing are the chat transcripts that were made, saying that the refund was owed to him.

I don't think you've formally registered this as a complaint with EDF have you?

I would suggest that you do that and reference the chat log transcripts in your complaint pointing out that your father queried why the refund was being given and that he relied on the companies representations that it was due and that he should not worry and so he accepted it and further relied on those representations when he spent it, so in his view he he has done nothing wrong and that it is not a matter related to billing for his energy used as that was paid in full before the refund was issued and that was more than 12 months ago.Was your father ever on the 'vulnerable persons' register with EDF? If so mention that as well.

They will probably not accept this argument so then follow the process to raise this with the ombudsman.

I can't say that it is a clear-cut case, but at some point they may decide that the optics outweigh the money they are trying to collect from an elderly man due purely to their own mistake...