Locating Deeds

GrouseyGrouse

Hi everyone,

We've just bought our forever home, a real do-er upper which hasn't really been touched since 1957 apart from a rewire in 1990 and a new boiler in 2001! It has been in the same family since 1957 and due to not really wanting to sell (probate sale, equity release company etc), the vendors were stunningly unhelpful in providing any kind of information about the history of the house, which I'm almost certain they have and would have been able to provide if they had been so minded.
The house was first registered at Land Registry in 1999, and the only documents we have received for the house from their solicitors (history wise) is the normal Land Registry electronic title document and title plan which gives very little info apart from an extract of a 1909 conveyance for it as a plot with copy not filed, we have no copy of this document.

I'm after trying to get hold of a copy of the deeds for pure historical interest, and I have a hunch they might be held by either the equity release company or the vendors solicitors. Is there any way of confirming who did the first registration at Land Registry in 1999 and what documents were used, I could then try and see if the solicitors might have them in archive (though presume Data Protection might create a wall)? I wouldn't even know where to start with the equity release company, I presume they absolutely wouldn't talk to me.

My fear is the deeds and other historical paperwork do exist and are on the brink of being shredded as no-one knows we'd love to have them.

Also the PIF was very vague about who owns one of our boundaries. I think it is our neighbours, but looking on their title there is just a copy filed document and no details. Any ideas how I might get a copy of that either?

Any advice is much appreciated.

AdrianC

GrouseyGrouse said:

We've just bought our forever home, a real do-er upper which hasn't really been touched since 1957 apart from a rewire in 1990 and a new boiler in 2001! It has been in the same family since 1957 and due to not really wanting to sell (probate sale, equity release company etc), the vendors were stunningly unhelpful in providing any kind of information about the history of the house, which I'm almost certain they have and would have been able to provide if they had been so minded.
...
I'm after trying to get hold of a copy of the deeds for pure historical interest, and I have a hunch they might be held by either the equity release company or the vendors solicitors. Is there any way of confirming who did the first registration in 1999 and what documents were used

The documents used to register the property are those which you're seeing in electronic format. It's entirely possible everything else has already been binned - after all, they aren't needed. They are, as you say, purely historical interest. And not everybody actually cares that much about that...

I could then try and see if the solicitors might have them in archive (though presume Data Protection might create a wall)? I wouldn't even know where to start with the equity release company, I presume they absolutely wouldn't talk to me.

They won't. Neither of them would.

The ER company are unlikely to have ever had paper deeds - after all, the property's registered. It's 21 years since it was registered - the solicitor are unlikely to have kept the paperwork all that time. Can I presume that 1999 was when the equity was released, which would have triggered the registration?

My fear is the deeds and other historical paperwork do exist and are on the brink of being shredded as no-one knows we'd love to have them.

Have you not... y'know... asked the vendors?

You have their contact details, after all, via the memorandum of sale and - failing that - through their solicitor.

But if the sale has actually completed, and all their relative's stuff has been cleared out already, then it's a safe assumption they will already have binned whatever they didn't want to keep themselves.

In that situation, I would have left any house paperwork in the house, and you would have already found it.

Also the PIF was very vague about who owns one of our boundaries. I think it is our neighbours, but looking on their title there is just a copy filed document and no details. Any ideas how I might get a copy of that either?

If the registered details don't show it, then assume that it's 50/50, and follow the G_M principle of tea and cake with the neighbour. Who owns the boundary is not necessarily the same as who owns the fence, anyway.

GrouseyGrouse

The house was bought by the parents in 1957 and first registered (I assume) when the mother died (which I can only deduce was in 1999). At some point it was transferred to the daughters, presumably when the father died in 2013. An equity release was taken out in 2018 when one of the daughters became ill and she died in early 2019. We bought the house from the remaining daughter who was in occupancy and her two nephews as executors, completing late last year.

We did ask at the time of purchase through both the solicitors and the EA, but we got no response (the remaining daughter was thorny through the entire process, the estate agent put it "they don't want to sell, they HAVE to sell"). It was said in a written answer to a solicitor's enquiry during conveyancing that the vendors (daughter and executors) had seen the 1909 conveyance, but we've never been provided with a copy.

I know its all a long shot, but just being hopeful! I had wondered based on an answer to a question answered by Land Registry previously if there was a way of seeing who did the legal work for first registration (solicitors) and to do a bit of digging from that side as I know others have got somewhere with this in the past, hence my question.

If not will do some research on who has lived there since 1909 using the old electoral rolls at the local Records Office.

Thanks for the info re. the boundary, having previously been an EA I just like to have a complete paper trail where available. Is there a mechanism for a third party to request a copy of the 'Copy Filed' document relating to our neighbours title?

FreeBear

AdrianC said:   - after all, the property's registered. It's 21 years since it was registered - the solicitor are unlikely to have kept the paperwork all that time.

Don't be too sure on that. I found the deeds for *this property in a solicitor's archive along with a few other documents going back to around 1978. But unless the OP is the client, a solicitor won't release the papers and probably won't even acknowledge whether they hold them.

Best bet is tea & cake, failing that, some documents such as conveyancing may have been lodged with the local records office.

greatcrested

GrouseyGrouse said:

. Is there a mechanism for a third party to request a copy of the 'Copy Filed' document relating to our neighbours title?

Pay £7 to the Land Registry on form OC2 here.