Suppliers who don't charge to change Economy7 to Standard tariff

peter_333

I've just purchased my first flat and will be moving in soon.  The property is electric only, and currently has Economy7 meters.  For various reasons (well considered and calculated reasons), we want to switch to a single meter on a standard tariff.  Our current supplier (Bulb) charges £120 for this change.

Is it normal for suppliers to charge a big fee to change from Economy7 like this?  Are there reputable suppliers who don't charge fees like this?  £120 is more than 2 months power usage for us, and seems quite excessive.

Gerry1

You don't need to change the meter, many suppliers (e.g. Neon Reef) will just charge the same rate on both registers.  Just get comparisons with and without E7.  Some comparison sites look up your meter on the national database, but others such as Runpath ask whether you have E7 so you can just say no.

Biscuit_Tin

peter_333 said:

I've just purchased my first flat and will be moving in soon.  The property is electric only, and currently has Economy7 meters.  For various reasons (well considered and calculated reasons), we want to switch to a single meter on a standard tariff.  Our current supplier (Bulb) charges £120 for this change.

Is it normal for suppliers to charge a big fee to change from Economy7 like this?  Are there reputable suppliers who don't charge fees like this?  £120 is more than 2 months power usage for us, and seems quite excessive.

£120 is quite expensive for a non-essential meter change, but then Bulb presumably need to start making an ident into their ever increasing £160million debt somehow.

Expect to pay about £50-£75 on average for a non-essential meter change where applied.

But:

...most big suppliers will do it for free, including all of the big six providers (British Gas, EDF, E.on, Npower, Scottish Power and SSE).

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/utilities/economy-7/

nick74

Scottishpower changed my mum's Economy 7 meter to a standard single rate meter for free, which was nice of them. What wasn't so nice was that they continued to charge her the Economy 7 daytime rate on the units used on her single rate meter for some weeks afterwards. It was all resolved eventually, but only after many calls to their call centre who had absolutely no idea what we were talking about.

Talldave

peter_333 said:

I've just purchased my first flat and will be moving in soon.  The property is electric only, and currently has Economy7 meters.  For various reasons (well considered and calculated reasons), we want to switch to a single meter on a standard tariff.  Our current supplier (Bulb) charges £120 for this change.

Is it normal for suppliers to charge a big fee to change from Economy7 like this?  Are there reputable suppliers who don't charge fees like this?  £120 is more than 2 months power usage for us, and seems quite excessive.

Electric only properties have Economy 7 meters for a reason.  Have you really done the maths carefully?  Even sceptical me had to bite the bullet under a year ago and accept that a Yorkshire Energy E7 tariff was cheaper, even for a house with gas heating/water, as the break-even point IIRC was around 15% night use.

I'm with @Gerry1, just switch to a supplier who adds the two readings together.  I've had over 30 years of E7 meters on non-E7 tariffs and have never had a supplier refuse a switch because of it.  Only in 2018 did I go on E7 for the first time, and then within a couple of months moved to a house with pointy needles on the meter!!!

peter_333

Talldave said:
Electric only properties have Economy 7 meters for a reason.  Have you really done the maths carefully?  Even sceptical me had to bite the bullet under a year ago and accept that a Yorkshire Energy E7 tariff was cheaper, even for a house with gas heating/water, as the break-even point IIRC was around 15% night use.

I'm with @Gerry1, just switch to a supplier who adds the two readings together.  I've had over 30 years of E7 meters on non-E7 tariffs and have never had a supplier refuse a switch because of it.  Only in 2018 did I go on E7 for the first time, and then within a couple of months moved to a house with pointy needles on the meter!!!

Yeah, we did the maths.  The numbers told me that even if Econ7 might give a small saving, the tiny amount was just not worth the hassles that come with trying to shift as much electricity use as possible to off-peak hours (only running the dishwasher and washing machine after midnight in a flat with thin walls between the bedroom and kitchen, etc.).

One of the things that clinched it, was this line in an article from MoneySavingExpert about how to maximise Economy7 savings:

"Assuming 42% of electricity is used at night - the national average - an Economy 7 tariff could typically save around £30/year."

If the "average" household stands to save only £30 per year, as our peak-usage % is higher than the average household, and as our overall usage is lower than the average household, Economy7 just doesn't make sense.

Gerry1

Forget 42% and other people's average usage, spin drying at 2am etc, all that matters is your existing E7 day and night kWh usage and what the total costs works out at on E7 and single rate.  If E7 saves a tenner per year, why pay more?

If the meter change is chargeable it'll take you umpteen years to claw it back, and you would also lose the ability to have E7 if future comparisons show it's cheaper.

Raxiel

Talldave said:

peter_333 said:

I've just purchased my first flat and will be moving in soon.  The property is electric only, and currently has Economy7 meters.  For various reasons (well considered and calculated reasons), we want to switch to a single meter on a standard tariff.  Our current supplier (Bulb) charges £120 for this change.

Is it normal for suppliers to charge a big fee to change from Economy7 like this?  Are there reputable suppliers who don't charge fees like this?  £120 is more than 2 months power usage for us, and seems quite excessive.

Electric only properties have Economy 7 meters for a reason.  Have you really done the maths carefully?  Even sceptical me had to bite the bullet under a year ago and accept that a Yorkshire Energy E7 tariff was cheaper, even for a house with gas heating/water, as the break-even point IIRC was around 15% night use.

I'm with @Gerry1, just switch to a supplier who adds the two readings together.  I've had over 30 years of E7 meters on non-E7 tariffs and have never had a supplier refuse a switch because of it.  Only in 2018 did I go on E7 for the first time, and then within a couple of months moved to a house with pointy needles on the meter!!!

Not necessarily a good reason.

In my first place of my own (built 2004) the heating was all electric panel heaters (that the lying agent/EPC described as 'storage' and me being fresh from my mum & dads with its GCH didn't know any better), and almost all Halogen downlights (before LED GU10's that were any good were easily available). The only that benefited from the E7 was the hot water tank, and even that required regular day-rate re-boosting for evening showers. Places like that are common, built by developers who don't care because they're only there to screen the expensive 'nice' houses (which have gas) from the adjacent main road/local eyesore, and to fulfill planning quotas. Then they're sold to landlords who also don't care because they don't have to live in them.

Admittedly I wasn't very MSE back then, and didn't really know about finding the best deals, but still, the only reason the place was affordable was because the supplier had the rates reversed (for the whole block). I knew one day it might get discovered, but fortunately the meter stopped working so I asked them to fit a single rate in its place and wiped out the evidence. My bills went up (they had to really, I was only paying £15 a month at one point) but not as much as they would have done on E7

On the main topic though, I also agree about finding a supplier that will combine the readings though rather than getting a new meter. Run the price comparison with both E7 and single rate, but you may find you have to apply for the E7 version, and then ask them to switch it to single rate on their system once the switch begins. From personal experience, this is the case for Eon and Octopus. Interestingly, while clearing out my thread bookmarks since the forum software change, I found an old thread where Will from Bulb confirmed they were happy to combine readings and charge a single rate. It was only last year (IIRC) they stopped doing that and forced their customers to match the tariff to the meter (or pay for a swap that would probably outweigh the savings).

peter_333

Gerry1 said:

Forget 42% and other people's average usage, spin drying at 2am etc, all that matters is your existing E7 day and night kWh usage and what the total costs works out at on E7 and single rate.  If E7 saves a tenner per year, why pay more?

If the meter change is chargeable it'll take you umpteen years to claw it back, and you would also lose the ability to have E7 if future comparisons show it's cheaper.

Short of posting my excel sheet showing kw/h drain from the workstation in my home office, please just trust that I've done the maths and I'm happy that Economy7 is not right for us.  I didn't decide this without careful consideration, a lot of trawling on these forums, and a chunk of investigation work at home (to the point of connecting power meters to a number of my high-drain office devices to calculate my average daily usage, etc)

Anyway, my main question is answered, I think.  I'll search out a provider who can change my meter for free, or who are willing to simply sum my two meters under one tariff.

Gerry1

As I recall, decades ago the E7 rates weren't exactly half price as the claims then suggested: the day rates and standing charges were both slightly higher, but E7 could save a bit even without storage heaters and unrealistic use of the tumble dryer etc.  Somehow I discovered (can't remember how, it was long before the internet) that you could opt for 2230 - 0030 and 0230 - 0730 GMT which meant you could 'double dip' at bedtime and breakfast, so the savings improved.

In more recent times the big boys have hiked both the standing charge and the daytime E7 rate compared to the single tariff, but many smaller companies such as Yorkshire Energy still remain very competitive even with low night time usage.

Think twice before scrapping an existing E7 meter, it's probably a false economy that also limits your future options.

Cardew

Who was it who said "History is bunk?" so on that basis some history!!

Before privatisation, when there were just the regional electricity companies, the accepted figure was 30% off-peak consumption to break even.

Since then the break even ratio has varied wildly by company, tariff, region. There have been masses of posts on this issue and you had to use over 50% off-peak on the worst tariff, to(unbelievably) a situation in London area, with London Electricity, where day electricity rate per kWh(for 17 hours)was cheaper than the night electricity rate per kWh(for 7 hours)

Whilst there are still frequent fluctuations, the trend is for off-peak prices to have increased more than daytime prices. Years ago many dual fuel customers used to shut down their gas boilers for the summer and heat hot water with off-peak electricity as it was cheaper(particularly when all boilers had pilot lights).

I have had an Economy 7 meter for 30+ years, but for the majority of the time I have a single rate tariff(off-peak and day combined). In recent years it has not been worth reverting to E7 for my usage.

Another point is that when on E7 my family would put the dishwasher/washing machine to operate during E7 hours when they were far from full. Now they are put on when full. It is worth remembering that the measured water cost of those appliances is far more than the cost of electricity, and most dishwashers use the same amount of water regardles of load.