Grade II listed house. Does it apply to interior & perimeter too?

BrianPamondesk

Before I begin guys. I fully understand that I will have to converse with the relevant local council where I intend to purchase the property. I just wanted your thoughts and ideas and comments from people who have been in similar positions. 

So, we are thinking of buying a property in Bolton. It is a grade 2 listed farm Building just off a main road. I get it that you can’t just go and change and alter grade 2 listed buildings willy billy but I was wondering if this covered the interior of the property AND the perimeter fencing. The property is advertised as needing modernisation which I fully understand. So, imagine I don’t touch the outside of the building and keep it as it was, what rules are there with regards to the interior? Can I do what I want? Could I literally rip the interior out and build a disco or something equally horrible? Not that I would even think of desiccating such a wonderful property but if I lost my mind could I literally turn the interior into anything I want? Second question is...So, the perimeter of the property sits on a main road with lots of traffic. The perimeter has trees and privets all around it and you can see through them and view the house. Bearing in mind we are spending a LOT of money on this house we want a LOT of privacy. Would we be allowed to erect a fence INSIDE the boundary of the property. Meaning... I’m not going to remove any trees or privets etc. 

I’m looking for your general thoughts and comments please. 

Thanks all.  

oldbikebloke

1. you have to look it up
https://historicengland.org.uk/advice/your-home/owning-historic-property/listed-building/

2. ask the council, they are the ones who will decide on the "visual amenity" characteristic

MovingForwards

@Doozergirl does old houses and may be able to offer advice

Doozergirl

The entire property is listed.  Inside and outside, including the boundaries.  

I take it you're not creating a disco, but any structural changes would need Listed Building Consent.  You can redecorate and do things like change the kitchen/bathroom/boiler, but if you get to changing windows, knocking walls, removing features then you're into LBC territory.  Repairing and replacing like with like is acceptable.  

In theory, adding to is better than taking away.  The fence would need permission.  Adding more trees wouldn't.  I suspect the conservation officer would be happier to see a particular type of fence added than your asking to remove established planting in favour of a fence.  It's always down to the individual officer, there's no hard and fast rule as to exactly what they will allow because each house is different.  

I certainly wouldn't buy a listed building with much intention of bashing it about though. 

phoebe1989seb

What Doozer said

It might be worth googling/joining the Period Property forum and posting there where there's a wealth of experience from people in similar situations as well as at least one conservation officer who is a regular poster.......

coachman12

Back in the day ( as the Americans would say  , I found from my own experience that the advantages of owning a Grade II Listed Building outweighed the disadvantages. My family received 50% grants from Central Government ( via The Historic Buildings Council ) for repair works. I believe things have changed and grants are now focused primarily on Grade II* and Grade I and also Grade II buildings which have a special "community" importance. And, back then, concern about changes to the interior ( as long as not devastating ) were more slanted in favour of the owner who had to live in the property than in strict statutory "rules". The main emphasis was usually on the architectural appearance of the exterior. I am not sure whether that is still the case, but I feel that unless perceptions have changed significantly, local authorities and "Historic England" are still keen not to put off listed buildings as being "unsellable"------they want them to be attractive to buyers and do not want them to quietly decay because buyers are scared off and the houses are left empty for long periods. 
The question lies in the scale of the changes you wish to make, whether to the interior or to the boundaries. The question that the LA Conservation Officer will look at is "are the proposed changes 
"sympathetic" ( always the "in-word" when it comes to LBC applications). Local authorities' approaches to LBC applications vary widely, so it might be an idea to ask the local authority Conservation Officer, as the architect who will more or less decide the application, for his advice if he is prepared to take the time to meet you and informally discuss your plans.
Of course, there are appeal procedures in the case of refusal of LBC, including the process being "called in" by the Secretary of State----but that is of more relevance to existing owners rather than you as a prospective purchaser. 
Try the informal "sounding out" of the local authority architect ----the worst he/she can say is " I can't possibly comment unless an application has been made" ; but, at best, he/she may be a nice helpful person with a bit of spare time for a chat to give you some "pointers" without compromising his/her formal position. Very best of luck, Brian, and hope you get the home you want.

FreeBear

Doozergirl said: I take it you're not creating a disco, but any structural changes would need Listed Building Consent.  You can redecorate and do things like change the kitchen/bathroom/boiler, but if you get to changing windows, knocking walls, removing features then you're into LBC territory.  Repairing and replacing like with like is acceptable. 

If you are doing repairs, don't do what this pair did - https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/news/local-news/couple-hit-massive-fine-destroying-3506448

Sis was looking at a cottage a few months back. Grade II listed, and on the market for a fairly reasonable price. I took one look at the EA listing, and advised she avoid it like the plague. Walls had been bashed about and plasterboard in the process of being nailed up. A fair bet that didn't have approval and the cost of reinstating lath & plaster would have been pretty steep.

Mutton_Geoff

BrianPamondesk said:

Not that I would even think of desiccating such a wonderful property

You may need to. A lot of older properties suffer from damp.

thearchitect

To be quite clear, and picking up on what others have said, the listing covers the entire property including its curtilage. 

The 1990 Act makes it a criminal offence to carry out any work which might affect the special historical or architectural interest of the property without having obtained permission.

That said, not all parts of a building will contribute equally to that special historical or architectural interest.  If it is primarily the exterior that is of value then there may very well be scope for significant internal alterations.  On the other hand if you've ornate original interiors in the principal apartments it will be more difficult.  Permitted development rights are much curtailed, and forget replacing (say) timber eaves with plastic or installing look-alike uPVC windows if the originals are in-situ.

It is a potential minefield for the inexperienced, and professional advice is usually worthwhile if you are thinking of any drastic alterations.