Assured Shorthold Tenancy - yearly or perpetual?

littlebranshill

My tenant has been living in the property for 13 years.  This has been on an annual AST renewing it every November.  Someone told me that I should have a open ended tenancy.   She is elderly and now has 18 cats and the place is in a state and has been deteriorating for some years.  She has not carried out her conditions of the AST to keep the place clean or decorated. Am I now in a difficult position because it's an annual renewable tenancy?  My fault as I have let things slide and should have got her to decorate earlier.  I am not trying to get her out as she pays her rent and the property cannot deteriorate any further so thought I would wait until she has to go into a home. Thoughts please.

theartfullodger

""" and now has 18 cats and the place is in a state and has been deteriorating for some years.  She has not carried out her conditions of the AST to keep the place clean or decorated.""" And you are considering giving her even more security of tenure? Words fail me:

I'd contact local council adult safeguarding team (for her sake, not yours...)

davidmcn

What would be the point in her decorating it while she's still living there?

notrouble

1) "Someone told me ..." Who? Do they know what they are talking about? Did they explain why they recommend this?

2) Do you want her to stay, or do you want to evict? Either way, nothing you can do till Nov 2020 - so decide then. Another 12 month tenancy gives her security (nice for her if she wants to stay) and guarantees you 12 months rent (nice for you if you need/want the income). Or do you want more flexibility to evict her at any time? Or to give her the flexibility to move at any time? If so, let her tenancy become periodic.

3) have you been inspecting & maintaining the property structurally as required? If not, time to start.

4) how she chooses to live (cleanliness etc) is up to her - it's her home not yours. What mattes is the condition if//when she leaves. Of course, if she is causing non-structural damage to your goods (white goods, carpets, furniture etc) you could do repairs and charge her. Or wait till the tenancy ends and deal with it then.

5) decoration is down to you, not her. If she wants to decorate it herself, she needs your consent. A clause in the tenancy agreement would be unenforcable on her.

As a good landlord though, I'd expect you to redecorate periodically, eg every 5 years or so, provided she wants this (she may resent the intrusion/ disruption into her life and prefer not to have the decorators in!).

Few tenants are willing to undertake decoration (or other improvements) themselves, since they can be evicted and their money is wasted. The beneficiary of this would be .... the landlord, who then has a nice newly-decorated property to offer a replacement tenant!

See also

* Ending/renewing an AST: what happens when a fixed term ends? How can a LL or tenant end a tenancy? What is a periodic tenancy?

littlebranshill

notrouble said:

1) "Someone told me ..." Who? Do they know what they are talking about? Did they explain why they recommend this?

2) Do you want her to stay, or do you want to evict? Either way, nothing you can do till Nov 2020 - so decide then. Another 12 month tenancy gives her security (nice for her if she wants to stay) and guarantees you 12 months rent (nice for you if you need/want the income). Or do you want more flexibility to evict her at any time? Or to give her the flexibility to move at any time? If so, let her tenancy become periodic.

3) have you been inspecting & maintaining the property structurally as required? If not, time to start.

4) how she chooses to live (cleanliness etc) is up to her - it's her home not yours. What mattes is the condition if//when she leaves. Of course, if she is causing non-structural damage to your goods (white goods, carpets, furniture etc) you could do repairs and charge her. Or wait till the tenancy ends and deal with it then.

5) decoration is down to you, not her. If she wants to decorate it herself, she needs your consent. A clause in the tenancy agreement would be unenforcable on her.

As a good landlord though, I'd expect you to redecorate periodically, eg every 5 years or so, provided she wants this (she may resent the intrusion/ disruption into her life and prefer not to have the decorators in!).

Few tenants are willing to undertake decoration (or other improvements) themselves, since they can be evicted and their money is wasted. The beneficiary of this would be .... the landlord, who then has a nice newly-decorated property to offer a replacement tenant!

See also

* Ending/renewing an AST: what happens when a fixed term ends? How can a LL or tenant end a tenancy? What is a periodic tenancy?

I have been maintaining the outside of the property.  There is a clause in the AST that she should keep the property in a "clean state and condition".  My feeling is that she might as well stay there now - as you say it is a regular income and gut the place when she goes.  I just wanted clarification on whether a perpetual AST is better or not.  She has also broken the cooker which was there when she moved in it is filthy and the knobs have all broken.  No inventory was taken when she moved in as she was a friend of a friend.  Is this down to me to replace?  I have lots of things for which I can evict her but just think maybe it's the devil you know?

dimbo61

Does the property have gas heating ? Gas fire or gas cooker ? If you have gas in the property you need a Gas Safe certificate each year.
Is the property old and poorly maintained ?
What is the EPC  rating ? Double glazing ? Loft insulation ? A rated boiler ?
Please don't tell me it's F or G energy rating ?
Carbon monoxide alarms ? 
Smoke alarms ?

notrouble

littlebranshill said:

I have been maintaining the outside of the property.  There is a clause in the AST that she should keep the property in a "clean state and condition".  My feeling is that she might as well stay there now - as you say it is a regular income and gut the place when she goes.  I just wanted clarification on whether a perpetual AST is better or not.  She has also broken the cooker which was there when she moved in it is filthy and the knobs have all broken.  No inventory was taken when she moved in as she was a friend of a friend.  Is this down to me to replace?  I have lots of things for which I can evict her but just think maybe it's the devil you know?

The clause is almost meaningless. You could try to enforce it by either

* evicting under S8 G12, 13 or 15, but it's highly doubtful a judge would grant possession, or

* seeking an injunction to force the tenant to clean the property. Expensive, time-consuming, and again - doubtful you'd succeed

I've never heard of a 'perpetual' tenancy. Please explain! I suspect you mean periodic in which case read the link I provided earlier.

Has she requested that you repair/replace the cooker? If not, why worry (at present). Wait till the tenancy ends.

Having said that, since there is no inventory, you have no evidence that you ever supplied a cooker, or if you did, what condition it was in when the tenancy started. So you will never be able to get her to pay for any damage.

I'd be interested to know what you mean by: " I have lots of things for which I can evict her.." Other than waiting till November and using S21, which S8 Ground(s) do you mean, and based on what evidence?

Dimbo's questions above are relevant given that you seem to have a tenuous grasp of the legalities of letting, so for your own sake, answer the questions, at least to yourself! And check other requirements you may have missed here:

* New landlords (1):advice & information :see links in next post

* New landlords (2): Essential links for further information

littlebranshill

dimbo61 said:

Does the property have gas heating ? Gas fire or gas cooker ? If you have gas in the property you need a Gas Safe certificate each year.
Is the property old and poorly maintained ?
What is the EPC  rating ? Double glazing ? Loft insulation ? A rated boiler ?
Please don't tell me it's F or G energy rating ?
Carbon monoxide alarms ? 
Smoke alarms ?

Yes gas central heating, and gas fire and cooker. I do have a Gas Safety certificate which I have given her a copy of.
The otherside of the property is in good condition.
EPC of D.  Carbon monoxide alarms not necessary.  Yes it has smoke alarms.
I am new to this as my late husband used to deal with everything.  The property is next door to mine which makes it easier.

littlebranshill

notrouble said:

littlebranshill said:

I have been maintaining the outside of the property.  There is a clause in the AST that she should keep the property in a "clean state and condition".  My feeling is that she might as well stay there now - as you say it is a regular income and gut the place when she goes.  I just wanted clarification on whether a perpetual AST is better or not.  She has also broken the cooker which was there when she moved in it is filthy and the knobs have all broken.  No inventory was taken when she moved in as she was a friend of a friend.  Is this down to me to replace?  I have lots of things for which I can evict her but just think maybe it's the devil you know?

The clause is almost meaningless. You could try to enforce it by either

* evicting under S8 G12, 13 or 15, but it's highly doubtful a judge would grant possession, or

* seeking an injunction to force the tenant to clean the property. Expensive, time-consuming, and again - doubtful you'd succeed

I've never heard of a 'perpetual' tenancy. Please explain! I suspect you mean periodic in which case read the link I provided earlier.

Has she requested that you repair/replace the cooker? If not, why worry (at present). Wait till the tenancy ends.

Having said that, since there is no inventory, you have no evidence that you ever supplied a cooker, or if you did, what condition it was in when the tenancy started. So you will never be able to get her to pay for any damage.

I'd be interested to know what you mean by: " I have lots of things for which I can evict her.." Other than waiting till November and using S21, which S8 Ground(s) do you mean, and based on what evidence?

Dimbo's questions above are relevant given that you seem to have a tenuous grasp of the legalities of letting, so for your own sake, answer the questions, at least to yourself! And check other requirements you may have missed here:

* New landlords (1):advice & information :see links in next post

* New landlords (2): Essential links for further information

notrouble said:

littlebranshill said:

I have been maintaining the outside of the property.  There is a clause in the AST that she should keep the property in a "clean state and condition".  My feeling is that she might as well stay there now - as you say it is a regular income and gut the place when she goes.  I just wanted clarification on whether a perpetual AST is better or not.  She has also broken the cooker which was there when she moved in it is filthy and the knobs have all broken.  No inventory was taken when she moved in as she was a friend of a friend.  Is this down to me to replace?  I have lots of things for which I can evict her but just think maybe it's the devil you know?

The clause is almost meaningless. You could try to enforce it by either

* evicting under S8 G12, 13 or 15, but it's highly doubtful a judge would grant possession, or

* seeking an injunction to force the tenant to clean the property. Expensive, time-consuming, and again - doubtful you'd succeed

I've never heard of a 'perpetual' tenancy. Please explain! I suspect you mean periodic in which case read the link I provided earlier.

Has she requested that you repair/replace the cooker? If not, why worry (at present). Wait till the tenancy ends.

Having said that, since there is no inventory, you have no evidence that you ever supplied a cooker, or if you did, what condition it was in when the tenancy started. So you will never be able to get her to pay for any damage.

I'd be interested to know what you mean by: " I have lots of things for which I can evict her.." Other than waiting till November and using S21, which S8 Ground(s) do you mean, and based on what evidence?

Dimbo's questions above are relevant given that you seem to have a tenuous grasp of the legalities of letting, so for your own sake, answer the questions, at least to yourself! And check other requirements you may have missed here:

* New landlords (1):advice & information :see links in next post

* New landlords (2): Essential links for further information

Yes I am new to this as my late husband used to deal with it.  With regard to the "lots of things" she has removed all the carpets, removed doors, did not get my permission when she got a dog (not to mention the 18 cats but the AST did not mention a limit on how many animals but surely a court would rule that 18 is excessive?), not kept the property in a clean state and condition.  The bathroom is a particular disgrace. I have photographs now.  But as I said I just wanted clarification on the "periodic" tenancy.  I will read your links.  Many thanks.

oldbikebloke

littlebranshill said:

Yes I am new to this as my late husband used to deal with it.  With regard to the "lots of things" she has removed all the carpets, removed doors, did not get my permission when she got a dog (not to mention the 18 cats but the AST did not mention a limit on how many animals but surely a court would rule that 18 is excessive?), not kept the property in a clean state and condition.  The bathroom is a particular disgrace. I have photographs now.  But as I said I just wanted clarification on the "periodic" tenancy.  I will read your links.  Many thanks.

despite what you think your AST says, the tenant has the right to enjoy the property in anyway they want to whilst they are renting it. Only upon the tenancy ending do you have any right whatsoever to pass comment on the cleanliness of the property, and since you don't seem to have a check in inventory, you will struggle to show the tenant has in any way damaged the property and therefore your claim to deduct costs or cleaning from their deposit may fail. 

theartfullodger

littlebranshill said:

Yes I am new to this as my late husband used to deal with it.  With regard to the "lots of things" she has removed all the carpets, removed doors, did not get my permission when she got a dog (not to mention the 18 cats but the AST did not mention a limit on how many animals but surely a court would rule that 18 is excessive?), not kept the property in a clean state and condition.  The bathroom is a particular disgrace. I have photographs now.  But as I said I just wanted clarification on the "periodic" tenancy.  I will read your links.  Many thanks.

Sorry to hear about your loss.

Who was named as landlord on the original AST please?  And who is registered as owner on land registry deeds please? (You don't have to own a place to be landlord).

If hubby was named as landlord you need to have served notice(s) compliant with s48 & s3 to be fully landlord (no rent due if s48 not done, possible fines & criminal record if not s3).

Good luck, tough circumstances for you.