Really Need help with Mail re-directing Service

Pollycat

BJV said:

Pollycat said:

Why haven't you mentioned anywhere in that letter that RM's own T&C's say that the maximum redirection period is 4 years?
Regardless of what has gone on before - and I'd be taking that up with them once the new 4 year request issue has been resolved  - I would have thought that your immediate concern is stopping the new request.
RM's own T&C's have been mentioned several times.
Personally, I'd have hit them with that and hoped that they had no valid response to that.
I think you've missed a trick with the letter you've sent.
You've left yourself open to RM coming back to you instead of probably killing it dead.

I did mention the 4 years etc when I called them . I tried to explain they moved 2016 etc and they said that as they Mr and Mrs horrible had requested the 4 year redirect in Nov 2017 ( over a year and a half after they moved out ) four years would take them to 2021 when they would consider another 4 years ?????. They said I this time they still had proofs of Id at my address.

I spoke to my solicitor as I was really worried and she said the easiest way to get them to stop was to prove that they where complicit in the potential fraud by allowing them to start the re-direct after the 6 month period. which is against their T&C's Hence the completion letter etc.

Royal Mail who are so unhelpful just kept saying that it was not their systems fault. Even though it is their system that allowed them to get bank statements in my address. I think I got a bit upset, ok I got a lot upset ! I think I said if they gave me half an hour I could Photoshop a bank statement to show I lived in Buckingham Place. I also said if someone knocks on my door and brakes my legs or puts a bullet in my head because they think I am Mrs XXXX then I hold them responsible.  At this point they said that they are not responsible for any consequential loss. ???? 

The bit in bold doesn't tally with what you said in your first post:

BJV said:

Last week I got a letter from Royal Mail informing us that the previous  owners had requested an extension to the mail re-direction service ????? I called to be told that for the last four years they had a mail re-direct from our address and that they had extenuating circumstances and wanted another four.

For the 'last 4 years' takes it back to early 2016 (around the date the sale was completed?), not late 2017.

So when was the redirection set up?

If it was 2016, then they've had the maximum 4 years.

RM T&Cs say 4 years is the maximum.

No argument about extending it.

Get that sorted.

Then - go after RM for what they have done wrong.

BJV

Manxman_in_exile said:

You mentioned Ofcom.  Have you actually telephoned and spoken to a real person at Ofcom and asked for advice?  I can't believe this can't be sorted out immediately. by them if RM won't.  If this was happening to me I'd be furious.

(I hope you didn't put "of" in your letter whan you meant "have" like you've posted above.  I'm sorry but it won't assist you to be taken seriously - and I would say this is serious).

Yes I called and spoke to someone who said that I had to go through Royal Mails complaints procedure and then and only then would the help. I also spoke to Action Fraud who where very helpful.

So Royal Mail simply keep saying that if the previous owner had proofs of ID to show my address then they will re-instate the service. 

It appears and sorry in my fed up and worried state I forgot the update that the time lines have changed.

So Mr & Mrs Horrible move out of my house in Feb 2016. They set up a one year mail re-direct.
They then come back and set up another mail redirect in Nov 2017 for 4 years . It looks like Royal Mail simply started the four year clock again even though they had not lived at the address for over a year and a half. 
They have now decided that they have special circumstances and would like another 4????

Royal Mail seem to not be able to understand the seriousness. Action Fraud thank fully do.
The letter went recorded delivery yesterday so I guess I will have to wait. Not sure what is going to be worse waiting for a knock at the door or finding out what they have used my address for.

Not sure if anyone knows but ???? Can I open post which is sent to my address but marked for them???

I think when and if this all stops this may the only way I managed to find out and sort out exactly what they have been using my address for. But I am not sure of the legalities???

BJV

frank_facts said:

I would be talking to the police and and advising them of your predicament. I am sad to say, after working at Xmas for Royal Mail plc, they have to delver, regardless any mail addressed to your home or my home, even if there is a redirection in place.

Also have a talk, face to face with your bank, for you do not want any problems, due to legacy data from former owner, staining your good name.

I had an issue from my first home, that had been used by a gent who was camped out with owner, and the bloke was wanted by many High Sherif's for payment of fines.

I would be woken up early by High Sherifs, doing there jobs, and eventualy, I just called the police out every time and then it stopped.

I hope the situation is arrested and you can live without fear, and enjoy your home.

Wow sounds like you had a terrible time. Really hope it does not get to this??? I know I can prove the dates with the bank and financial organisations I just don't want some of the "type" ( can not think of another PC way to put it ) of people that they mixed with thinking that they are there???

Takmon

BJV said:

Manxman_in_exile said:

You mentioned Ofcom.  Have you actually telephoned and spoken to a real person at Ofcom and asked for advice?  I can't believe this can't be sorted out immediately. by them if RM won't.  If this was happening to me I'd be furious.

(I hope you didn't put "of" in your letter whan you meant "have" like you've posted above.  I'm sorry but it won't assist you to be taken seriously - and I would say this is serious).

Yes I called and spoke to someone who said that I had to go through Royal Mails complaints procedure and then and only then would the help. I also spoke to Action Fraud who where very helpful.

So Royal Mail simply keep saying that if the previous owner had proofs of ID to show my address then they will re-instate the service. 

It appears and sorry in my fed up and worried state I forgot the update that the time lines have changed.

So Mr & Mrs Horrible move out of my house in Feb 2016. They set up a one year mail re-direct.
They then come back and set up another mail redirect in Nov 2017 for 4 years . It looks like Royal Mail simply started the four year clock again even though they had not lived at the address for over a year and a half. 
They have now decided that they have special circumstances and would like another 4????

Royal Mail seem to not be able to understand the seriousness. Action Fraud thank fully do.
The letter went recorded delivery yesterday so I guess I will have to wait. Not sure what is going to be worse waiting for a knock at the door or finding out what they have used my address for.

Not sure if anyone knows but ???? Can I open post which is sent to my address but marked for them???

I think when and if this all stops this may the only way I managed to find out and sort out exactly what they have been using my address for. But I am not sure of the legalities???

Yes you are allowed to open post with their name on as long as your not doing it for fraudulent reasons which you aren't. But i think your over-reacting to this situation and need to stop worrying so much. Yes you need to keep trying to stop the redirection i agree but i really don't think your going to be getting people coming to your house causing trouble when you haven't had any issues so far and this has already been going on for 4 years. 
So carry on trying to fight it but don't let it worry you to death.

DoaM

BJV said:

Not sure if anyone knows but ???? Can I open post which is sent to my address but marked for them???

If the redirect is in place then you shouldn't receive any, but ....... if you do, then as long as you don't do so with the intent to cause a detriment to the intended recipient, there is nothing to stop you opening any mail received at your address, regardless of the addressee name.

Pollycat

BJV said:

Manxman_in_exile said:

You mentioned Ofcom.  Have you actually telephoned and spoken to a real person at Ofcom and asked for advice?  I can't believe this can't be sorted out immediately. by them if RM won't.  If this was happening to me I'd be furious.

(I hope you didn't put "of" in your letter whan you meant "have" like you've posted above.  I'm sorry but it won't assist you to be taken seriously - and I would say this is serious).

Yes I called and spoke to someone who said that I had to go through Royal Mails complaints procedure and then and only then would the help. I also spoke to Action Fraud who where very helpful.

So Royal Mail simply keep saying that if the previous owner had proofs of ID to show my address then they will re-instate the service. 

It appears and sorry in my fed up and worried state I forgot the update that the time lines have changed.

So Mr & Mrs Horrible move out of my house in Feb 2016. They set up a one year mail re-direct.
They then come back and set up another mail redirect in Nov 2017 for 4 years . It looks like Royal Mail simply started the four year clock again even though they had not lived at the address for over a year and a half. 
They have now decided that they have special circumstances and would like another 4????

Royal Mail seem to not be able to understand the seriousness. Action Fraud thank fully do.
The letter went recorded delivery yesterday so I guess I will have to wait. Not sure what is going to be worse waiting for a knock at the door or finding out what they have used my address for.

Not sure if anyone knows but ???? Can I open post which is sent to my address but marked for them???

I think when and if this all stops this may the only way I managed to find out and sort out exactly what they have been using my address for. But I am not sure of the legalities???

I'll post this as you don't seem to be taking any notice of it regardless of how many times it is mentioned:

8.3 The maximum Redirection term is four years, including any extensions. This is reduced to 6 months for a Redirection where the old address is a PO Box

Right.

So they had a one year redirection from Feb 2016 to 2017.

Then - presumably when that ended - they applied for a further 4 year service, which would take them to Feb 2021.

So have you asked yourself why they are applying for a further 4 years one year before the end of the 4 years?

I think it possible that at the point they asked for a further 4 years (around Feb 2017? but not sure about the letter you mention dated November 2017), RM may have told them they couldn't have a 4 year redirection as the maximum is 4 years and they'd already had 1 year.

I think that is why you have now been contacted by RM (in Feb 2020) because the existing redirection has ended.

Your main point is (or at least should have been) that RM themselves say that the redirection service maximum period is 4 years.

And they've had those 4 years.

Feb 2016 - 2017.

2017 to Feb 2020.

I think you've made things more complicated by not sticking to that 4 year maximum clause.

BJV

Thank you for the comments.

I know that it is irrational to be so paranoid about the situation and you are all right. Chances are that there will not be a knock at the door. In most respects I am a sane, level headed person but this has really taken by surprise.  They where and are horrible people who have tormented and taken advantage of lots of people. We know that their current business enterprise is now according to companies house just over £900,000 in debt. That saying they have had many business's. Lots. They normally start them then fold a year or 18 months later leaving loads of debt. 

I do understand the 4 years, the implications and the reasons that this is so important. 100 percent I do , just a shame Royal Mial don't. 

Mr & Mrs horrible have already exceeded it.  I have already pointed this out and Royal Mail seemed to think that they had a facility for special circumstances in which cases they could extend it.  Every time I raised this they simply talked over me about proofs of ID as if simply being able to show a bank statement in an address meant that you where entitled and responsible for the location. 

I think that is why my solicitor said to go down the route of "you buggered up allowing it in the first instance "  so stop now or else.  

Ref the opening mail thank you. I think when it finally stops this may be the only way of finding out why using my address was so important. 

Once again massive thank you.

Pollycat

BJV said:

Thank you for the comments.

I know that it is irrational to be so paranoid about the situation and you are all right. Chances are that there will not be a knock at the door. In most respects I am a sane, level headed person but this has really taken by surprise.  They where and are horrible people who have tormented and taken advantage of lots of people. We know that their current business enterprise is now according to companies house just over £900,000 in debt. That saying they have had many business's. Lots. They normally start them then fold a year or 18 months later leaving loads of debt. 

I do understand the 4 years, the implications and the reasons that this is so important. 100 percent I do , just a shame Royal Mial don't. 

Mr & Mrs horrible have already exceeded it.  I have already pointed this out and Royal Mail seemed to think that they had a facility for special circumstances in which cases they could extend it.  Every time I raised this they simply talked over me about proofs of ID as if simply being able to show a bank statement in an address meant that you where entitled and responsible for the location. 

I think that is why my solicitor said to go down the route of "you buggered up allowing it in the first instance "  so stop now or else.  

Ref the opening mail thank you. I think when it finally stops this may be the only way of finding out why using my address was so important. 

Once again massive thank you.

I would have simply asked RM to point out where it mentions 'special circumstances' for an extension of their service' within their T&C's.
I've not read them since your latest post (I'm on my phone and it's bad enough on my laptop) but I'm guessing the T&C's don't say that.
I think you've probably been dealing with RM on the phone (going by your comment about them talking over you).
I would have put the whole thing in writing (but it's too late for that now).

Actually, I'm quite annoyed on your behalf because I'm finding RM's actions - given what it says in their T&C's - unbelievable and appalling.

RussellR

Silvertabby said:

There appear to be two questions here.  One is, is the applicant entitled to use this service? The answer seems to be yes, as it's between him and RM.  Question two, however, is the biggee - and that is is the applicant entitled to use OP's address for whatever purposes.  The answer to that is no, absolutely not.  OP's complaint should be on that basis - that the vendor does not, has never, nor ever will have OP's permission to use this address for any purpose.  

Whatever documentation has been provided to Royal Mail linking the previous resident to your property, I can't think of any legitimate reason for a private individual to have access to the redirection system for four years in the circumstances detailed let alone any extension.  The documentation is simple - if you still hold your driving licence/bank account etc at the old address, the providers won't know to change the data until they are told.  And Royal Mail will quite happily keep redirecting post to the new address so they are none the wiser.

I would get a copy of the Land Registry records showing your purchase of the property from the former owner - or maybe a copy of correspondence from your solicitor documenting the transfer would be sufficient - and send that to Royal Mail without delay as the reason you object to the renewal.

As has been said elsewhere, debt isn't directly recorded against a property - and cannot be attributed to you unless there is some form of financial connection between you, which there does not seem to be.  However, your address does seem to be the previous owners' public address for perhaps credit applications - so if a debt collector is sent out they will turn up at your door.  Correspondence will be forwarded by Royal Mail, but the bailiff obvioulsy does not use that system.  And however pleasant they may be you don't really want to be wasting your time dealing with them.

Afther the redirection is (hopefully) cancelled, you will probably start receiving post for the previous owners - you should just mark it 'Gone away' plus the date of sale and stick it in the post box but this should be shortlived as recipients become aware of the situation.

BJV

Seems really stupid now in view of whats happening at the moment.

But Royal Mail wrote back saying that as they had not had any response from the previous owners so they had suspended the service. We have already started to get mail. I don't want to put any more pressure on call centers (which I understand must be fit to burst ) so i am just opening them and writing back no longer at the address since 2016. Nothing to sinister for now just late payments and arrears on....  well everything !!!

Have to say I feel really stupid for getting so up tight and worried about it.
Just hope everyone is safe and well, and looking after themselves.