PIP Tribunal + Increase in Points

atlantis187

My wife's pip tribunal is this Tuesday and we have just received a letter from the DWP today stating that they have looked at her claim again and have awarded her 6 points in 3 different descriptors mainly due to using aids and also 4 points for mobility before she was awarded 0 points for both at the assessment and MR stage.
Feel like a kick in the teeth so close yet so far with only 2 more points needed for standard care.

My wife is having panic attacks and major anxiety over this tribunal and and over the last week has even been saying she is not going, How are we best to tackle this to gain the 2 extra points she needs for standard care? Will the tribunal already know from the DWP that they have upped the points to six even at this late stage.

poppy12345

atlantis187 said:

My wife's pip tribunal is this Tuesday and we have just received a letter from the DWP today stating that they have looked at her claim again and have awarded her 6 points in 3 different descriptors mainly due to using aids and also 4 points for mobility before she was awarded 0 points for both at the assessment and MR stage.
Feel like a kick in the teeth so close yet so far with only 2 more points needed for standard care.

My wife is having panic attacks and major anxiety over this tribunal and and over the last week has even been saying she is not going, How are we best to tackle this to gain the 2 extra points she needs for standard care? Will the tribunal already know from the DWP that they have upped the points to six even at this late stage.

I'm not sure what the point of awarding those points when there's still no award, i agree about the kick in the teeth.

HMCTS should have also been contacted about those points that were given. I'd advise her to attend the hearing because they will want to see her in person. It's is very stressful, i agree but they will want her to tell them how she's affected by those conditions by answering the questions they have.

How she deals with the extra points she needs will depend on which descriptors she thinks apply to her to score those extra points. Difficult to advise without knowing how she's affected.

I assume the submission has been written and sent? This should have included where she thinks she should have scored points, her reasons why and some real life examples added in as well for each descriptor that applies.

Good luck.

Alice_Holt

Where these points you had identified in your submission?
What other descriptors and points are you asking the tribunal to look at?

It is important she does attend the hearing, so she can fully explain the difficulties she experiences with the PIP activities i.e how she wife copes with dressing / undressing, getting off and on the toilet, etc - how long it takes, how frequently she needs help and all the other detailed accounts of her day-to-day life around the relevant PIP descriptors. Only your wife can explain that to the panel - her verbal evidence will be very important to the panel.

Please read carefully through the link and the pages on what to do at the tribunal hearing.
 https://www.advicenow.org.uk/guides/how-win-pip-appeal

It is most likely the panel have received the letter from the DWP, but take a copy with you and ask if they have received it. Concentrate your notes / examples on the remaining descriptors you have identified.

atlantis187

We have not done a submission for the tribunal everything we wanted to tell them we already did when we did the MR which the tribunal already have a copy of don't know what else to write.
Is it essential that a separate submission be done and sent to the tribunal?

calcotti

atlantis187 said:.

Is it essential that a separate submission be done and sent to the tribunal?

Not in my opinion if the MR submission made clear where you think you should qualify for an award.

Alice_Holt

atlantis187 said:

Is it essential that a separate submission be done and sent to the tribunal?

  Not essential, but it helps build your case for the tribunal.
The MR is completed before you have sight of the DWP evidence bundle, so in a submission / statement you can get a more comprehensive picture for the tribunal panel explaining why the DWP decision was wrong. You can also directly refer to material they have directly in front of them, it helps focus the discussion on the areas you want them to look at.
You can then have additional examples / notes of frequency of occurrence and time taken, adequacy, etc written in a note-book you take to the hearing. This expands on the points / examples made in the submission, and all helps in your verbal evidence  to give the panel a full picture of the specific activities you believe the DWP got wrong.   
The tribunal have limited time, so a submission focusing on the relevant factors helps to ensure the panel's questions are related to what you want to talk about. By being able to fully explain (without the panel having to go through all activities - relevant or not), it does increase the chance of success.  

Sometimes a submission / statement (with evidence) is enough for the panel to come to a decision in your favour, without needing your verbal evidence. Other times, the verbal evidence needed is brief and to clarify that the submission is correct.    

Have you read the How to win a PIP appeal guide I linked to on a previous PIP appeal thread of yours a while back (and in my earlier post above) ?
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5965897/rep-for-pip-tribunal#latest
It includes a helpful section on how to best present your case (section 16).  Here is the latest user review from the site (which has been written in conjunction with charities such as Law for Life, Citizens Advice, etc) - "So grateful and happy that I found this fantastic advice. Today with the use of your statement, a family member was awarded enhanced payment for both elements."  I link to it as it gives advice that you would get from an experienced adviser at your local advice agency but in a more extensive format that OP's can retain, read, and return to. I do hope that OP's look at it, as it contains some essential information (especially on reliability).

What did you MR say?  Did you identify the relevant descriptors, and explain why and how they apply?  What reasons did the DWP give for rejecting your MR?

Was this a renewal or a first time assessment?

MikeJO

Not sure on the actual process so can't give any advice as we had our hands held by the wonderful people at the CAB after my wife's award was slashed in November 2018 to standard daily and zero mobility (from enhanced daily and standard mobility). We finally got to the tribunal last month and my wife was totally panic stricken at the thought of it like yours atlantis. I have to say though that the tribunal panel were so kind and sensitive, and they actually listened and used the evidence of their own eyes and ears rather than running through a list of tick boxes. Result was enhanced daily and enhanced mobility all backdated and award extended; amounted to a back dated payment of £5,700 odd and a few years of much reduced stress and financial stability.
If our experience is anything to go by the tribunal is infinitely easier to cope with than the dreadful assessments. Wish you well for Tuesday. 

Alice_Holt

MikeJO said:

I have to say though that the tribunal panel were so kind and sensitive, and they actually listened and used the evidence of their own eyes and ears rather than running through a list of tick boxes. Result was enhanced daily and enhanced mobility all backdated and award extended; amounted to a back dated payment of £5,700 odd and a few years of much reduced stress and financial stability.
If our experience is anything to go by the tribunal is infinitely easier to cope with than the dreadful assessments. 

    I would totally agree with MikeJO, tribunal panels are very good at calming nerves in order to get the verbal evidence they need. They are very thorough, as they need to justify their decisions in law, so they will listen carefully to verbal evidence.

   At my local CAB well over 90% of all appeals succeed at tribunal. Nationally for PIP it's c.74%.  
https://www.buzzfeed.com/emilydugan/most-dwp-benefits-cases-which-reach-court-are-based-on-bad

OP - your wife has nothing to lose as doesn't currently have an award. It's her chance to get an incorrect DWP decision overturned.  The guide I have linked to explains what to do on the day.
I do hope you return to your thread, and answer some of the questions I have asked you, such as:
Where these points you had identified in your submission MR?
What other descriptors and points are you asking the tribunal to look at?

atlantis187

Thanks a lot for this guy,
When we did the MR we broke it down in detail every paragraph of the decisions maker letter which we didn't agree with and then further we highlighted each descriptor and gave some examples how these affect her day to day life and which we feel should have been awarded points in. (Alice I think I send you a copy of the MR letter for you to check before we sent it of)
The decision came back was just copy and paste job from the original decision.

MikeJO

The decision came back was just copy and paste job from the original decision.

CAB told us this would happen and that we'd need to go to tribunal; I think it's (unwritten) policy at the DWP and they just hope people people give up, I'm sure many do sadly.

atlantis187

Good News,
Just wanted to let you guys know since receiving the letter from DWP with the 6 points I phoned them today and said we wasn't happy even though they have looked at the claim again but stuff still has been overlooked and there are other descriptors where she should have been given points which would have entitled her to have the mimimum standard rate. 
They kicked up a fuss and said its to late in the day and just to go to the tribunal tomorrow and argue your case. So I pushed it a bit more and the guy eventually said leave it with me and I will contact you in a couple of hours with an update.
So he rings back 2 hours later and says he's had another glance over the claim and has decided to award her standard care and standard mobility and will be backdated to sept 2018 and there was no need to attend court tomorrow if you agree with it.
We said yes please lol.
He said he will organise all the paper and get it sent out this week.
Once again thanks a lot for all your help guys.