PCN Claim from Premier Park Limited / BW Legal (Telephone Hearing)

Coupon-mad

Which PPC is the Claimant?

Le_Kirk

PatrickReacher said:

Thanks @beamerguy and @Le_Kirk. 
That leads me to my next question... because I can't really remember anything regarding the parking, can I really put the points about signage and properly displaying? 

Just add the standard points about signage and landowner authority as you have been advised and then, when it comes to Witness Statement (WS) and evidence stage, you can say in your WS "after I received the PCN, I carried out some research and, during a visit to the site of the alleged transgression, I took these photos that show the signage is............"

PatrickReacher

Redx said:

Always , always include no landowner authority and poor signage etc ,regardless

You should have emailed a SAR to the DPO at the PPC to obtain all your data attaching a copy of the claim form , this will extract documents and pictures etc, so get it done if not done already

You haven't named the claimant , it's not B w legal despite the thread title

Coupon-mad said:

Which PPC is the Claimant?

It is Premier Park Limited.

PatrickReacher

I've been struggling with my defense and I stumbled across @Coupon-mad 's suggested template defense to adapt for all parking charge cases where they add false admin costs.

I've decided to adapt this version instead as I don't have much longer to finalise.

Here is the version I have so far

dropbox.com/s/0tphwnl8vkqtcyc/defence%20draft%20v3.docx?dl=0

Here are some adaptations that I've made to make it relevant to my case and I'd like to highlight them and see if they're okay?

In point 16, I've changed from "The Defendant is not the main/only driver of this vehicle" to "The Defendant was not the only driver of this vehicle". I had a relative as a named driver who rarely used my car.

On point 16, should I include this point? Or omit it and add that I've got evidence of using the car park legitimately (I have a cinema receipt) to the facts point. I don't know on what grounds they issued the PCN though. It could have been overstaying or it could have been walking away from the site whilst parked. Both of which are probably true.

On point 17 (facts). What can I include? Aside from the above about the cinema ticket, I also received no PCN or any correspondence due, probably due to a wrong registered keepers address.

On point 20, have I set out the company number bit right? Which bit did I need to change as per the red text?

In regard to the appendices, on @Coupon-mad 's thread, someone said that they didn't know how the photos would be perceived in the court. Should I change these or are they acceptable?

Also on the appendices, I noted they are red (these are the sections which need changing and adapting. What do I change?

Many thanks,

Alex.

Coupon-mad

On point 16, should I include this point? Or omit it and add that I've got evidence of using the car park legitimately (I have a cinema receipt) to the facts point. I don't know on what grounds they issued the PCN though. It could have been overstaying or it could have been walking away from the site whilst parked. Both of which are probably true.

Say what you said above, that you are having to guess what the allegation might be, but you think it might be from a day when you and occupants of your car were genuine patrons of the cinema and no terms about a parking charge were seen or breached, to your knowledge.

On point 17 (facts). What can I include? Aside from the above about the cinema ticket, I also received no PCN or any correspondence due, probably due to a wrong registered keepers address.

Talk about the cinema receipt there and admit to driving IMHO, so change #16 to remove the bit about having more than one driver if you decide to defend as admitted driver.  

Just state what the Defendant knows or doesn't know.  talk about the location and if you and your family knew it was always unrestricted parking (maybe?) for cinema users, so were not expecting any change in terms because none were prominent.

On point 20, have I set out the company number bit right? Which bit did I need to change as per the red text?

As long as you looked them up and found the PPC's company number, that's all that is needed there.  I put it in bold so people wouldn't ask how to find a company number...people don't read what's in front of them these days so I bolded the whole sentence, but in your defence none of it should be in bold, except sub-headings.

D_P_Dance

Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams, so consider complaining to your MP, it can cause the scammer extra costs and work, and has been known to get the charge cancelled.

Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, many of whom are former clampers, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted

Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.

PatrickReacher

Thanks @D_P_Dance. Will do.
Thanks for the feedback @Coupon-mad. Here's what I've updated:

16. Due to the of the sparsity of the Particulars of Claim, the Defendant has been unable to ascertain the allegation but believes it may be from a day when himself and another occupant of the vehicle were genuine patrons of the cinema that the car park in the Particulars of Claim facilitates. No terms about a parking charge were seen or breached, to the Defendant’s knowledge.  It is not established thus far, whether the car was parked, or just stopped momentarily and caught by predatory ticketing.  It is not accepted that the location included prominent signs giving ‘adequate notice’ of the onerous parking charge. A compliant Notice to Keeper (‘NTK’) was not properly served in strict accordance with section 8 or 9 (as the case may be) of the POFA.

17. Here are the facts: The Defendant recalls parking on the car park where the PCN was issued, many times previously to use the facilities. The Defendant wasn’t aware of any terms about a parking charge and as a frequent user of the facilities, hadn’t been expecting any change in terms as none were prominent. The Defendant has been able to recover a booking confirmation of cinema tickets, containing a date matching the issue date of the PCN in question. 

How does that look?
Here are some considerations/questions...

I didn't receive any correspondence or know about a PCN likely because Ihadn't updated my registered keeper address and so it probably went to a different address. Is that worth mentioning or could it get me in more trouble like a fine?

After reading other threads about the same car park, I noticed some people where being done for wandering off-site. I did this as I went for a meal nearby but then came back and used the facilities genuinely. 

Should I appendicise the booking confirmation?

Should I admit to driving outright or should I just not mention anything?

I looked at the location history on my phone. I arrived at 19:02 and left at 23:26 (matches pcn). There's an article here describing how it had gone from free all day parking to free 4 hours max stay. So I overstayed by 24 minutes. This article was a few months prior to the PCN. Is it worth mentioning any of this??
 lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/news/16324839.blackburn-nandos-vue-cinema-car-park-reduce-free-parking/ 

Thanks again,

Coupon-mad

How does that look?

Very good!

Here are some considerations/questions...I didn't receive any correspondence or know about a PCN likely because Ihadn't updated my registered keeper address and so it probably went to a different address. Is that worth mentioning or could it get me in more trouble like a fin

As long as if you still own the car the address with the DVLA is now up to date, you can't be fined.  And as long as this claim form went to the right address(did it?) then I wouldn't mention addresses.

AFTER TYPING THAT, THE STUPID FORUM QUOTE THING WENT HAYWIRE (IT IS TRULY ALMOST USELESS, LIKE THE SEARCH FACILITY, SINCE THE UPDATE LAST MONTH) SO I HAVE HAD TO ITALICISE YOUR QUERIES INSTEAD...HRRRMMMPH....!


''After reading other threads about the same car park, I noticed some people where being done for wandering off-site. I did this as I went for a meal nearby but then came back and used the facilities genuinely.'' 

OK, but no need to mention that as you can prove patronage of the cinema and for that reason in your case, I would admit to being the driver so you can be a clear and honest witness to the Judge and not look like you are hiding who was driving!


''Should I appendicise the booking confirmation?''
Not to a defence, no.  You know from the NEWBIES thread WHAT HAPPENS WHEN' red heading ad linked info under it, when evidence has to be served later in this process.

''I looked at the location history on my phone. I arrived at 19:02 and left at 23:26 (matches pcn). There's an article here describing how it had gone from free all day parking to free 4 hours max stay. So I overstayed by 24 minutes. This article was a few months prior to the PCN. Is it worth mentioning any of this??''
 lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/news/16324839.blackburn-nandos-vue-cinema-car-park-reduce-free-parking/ 

You didn't overstay by 24 mins, you probably took about 12 mins to drive in, drive round, wait, and find a place to actually park if it was busy.  Then say 11 or 12 mins to leave past the exit at the very perimeter of the site.  So, you left the parking space well within the 'minimum ten minutes' grace period as set by the CoP. Your defence should say this.

PatrickReacher

Hi guys. Here's the latest.

Anything needed from me or should I just wait for a date? Premier parking send an email to the court and cc'd me saying that they're happy for it to be dealt with on paper (shock).

Coupon-mad

Please read the TELEPHONE HEARINGS thread and use the words I wrote in June (might be on page 14...).

No link, search for that thread, it's all there.