smart parking PCN notice - B&M Morley

MARLEY199

/Hi, the registered keeper of the vehicle received a PCN notice on 27/01/2020 for the driver parking at B&M Morley on 15/01/2020. The registered keeper has only just received this notice as they are in the process of moving house. The driver paid for parking for one hour and has a valid ticket, but overstayed by 10 minutes as the drivers son was hungry and on returning to the car, they sat and ate a sandwich as they were unaware that the time entering and leaving the car park was recorded and thought this would be fine as they had a valid ticket. The 14 day discount period is not up. What does the registered keeper of the vehicle do now? The driver did go into B&M and also the sandwich shop, but they haven't kept the receipt, although they do have a bank statement, but this is showing as the next day, although was definitely spent on that day.

Redx

Try and get the retailer or landowner to cancel it
Read the Newbies FAQ sticky thread near the top of the forum
Appeal as keeper using the blue text template from that newbies thread
No blabbing about who was driving

Read the latest 2020 BPA CoP clause 13 about grace periods and time to leave a site

Fruitcake

What is the date the NTK was issued, and when did it arrive?

From this you will be able to determine if it arrived in time for keeper liability to apply.
In any case, you will should compare the NTK with that of the strict PoFA requirements to see if the wording can make the keeper liable.

Do complain to the landowner/retail manager first.

Don't forget to complain to your MP about this unregulated scam.

D_P_Dance

Read what Pete Wishart MP said recently in the House of commons about Smart Parking.

"I am sick and tired of receiving emails from people complaining about the behaviour of parking companies, telling me that they will never again visit Perth city centre because of the negative experience they had when they had the misfortune to end up in a car park operated by one of these companies. I have received more complaints about one car park in the city of Perth than about any other issue. That car park is operated by the lone ranger of the parking cowboys: the hated and appalling Smart Parking—I see that many other Members are unfortunate enough to have Smart Parking operating in their constituencies. It has reached the stage where one member of my staff now spends a good part of each day just helping my constituents and visitors to my constituency to navigate the appeals process.
…
The BPA does not have the ability to regulate these companies and has shown no sign whatsoever that it is trying to get on top of some of the sharper practices. The BPA gives a veneer of legitimacy to some of the more outlandish rogue operators by including them in their membership, allowing them to continue to operate. The Bill will oblige operators such as Smart Parking to amend their practices." https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5972164/parking-eye-signs-oxford-road-reading

Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams, so consider complaining to your MP., it can cause the scammer extra costs and work, and in some cases, cancellation.

Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, many of whom are former clampers, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted

Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.

MARLEY199

The date of the parking charge was 15/01/2020 and it says the letter was sent out on 27/01/2020. I have sent the following email to smart parking this morning, that I found on here, but there are so many cases I am confused at to what steps I need to take. I didn't know if I could go through the appeals section on the website as it is asking me to put in my details. Is that me giving them driver details? or just accepting that I am the keeper

• Registered Keeper of Vehicle: XXX
  

  
  I dispute your 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a formal complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner and to my MP.
  
  There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. Since your PCN is a vague template, I require ALL photos taken and an explanation of the allegation and your evidence, i.e.:
  
  - If the allegation concerns a PDT machine, the data supplied in response to this appeal must include the record of payments made - showing partial VRNs - and an explanation of the reason for the PCN, because your Notice does not explain it.
  
  - If the allegation involves an alleged overstay of minutes, your evidence must include the actual grace period agreed by the landowner. If you fail to evidence the actual grace period that applies at this site or suggest that only one period applies, this will be disregarded as an attempt to mislead. In the absence of evidence, it will be reasonably taken to be a minimum of twenty minutes (ten on arrival and ten after parking time) in accordance with the official BPA article by Kelvin Reynolds about 'observation periods' on arrival being additional and separate to a 'grace period' at the end.
  
  - in all cases, you must include a close up actual photograph of the sign you contend was at the location on the material date.
  
  Formal note:
  Should you later pursue this charge by way of litigation, note that service of any legal documents by email is expressly disallowed and you are not entitled to assume that the data in this dispute/appeal remains the current address for service in the future.
  
  Yours faithfully,

  
  

  XXX

MARLEY199

I can't find a template to complain to the store manager. does anyone have this. should I say that I paid for a ticket but it seems that they are disputing ten minutes, although this didn't run over the two hours allowed?

MARLEY199

I have spoken to the manager at B&M, I asked about grace periods. Time to enable the driver to purchase a ticket after entering the car park and time at the end to enable the driver to leave the car park. Both of which I feel would more than cover the ten minutes that the company is claiming the driver overstayed. B&M state that the car park does not belong to them, even though the driver did see a sign which says B&M car park. They say they rent the land from a land owner who lets the land out to the parking company and so there is nothing they can do

Redx

They are probably correct and so have no control
The I D of WE , the Royal We should be used if complaining to a landowner or managing agent
Does the PCN allow appeals by email ?? Most do not allow it
The standard practice is to appeal choosing keeper on a website , avoiding anything that says Driver
The following words should be avoided on here and any appeal
Do not use "My , Me , Myself & I" , so no implications on who was driving

Le_Kirk

You could ask B&M from whom they rent the land or the local council to find out who pays the non-domestic business rates or finally the Land Registry (but that will set you back £3).

Fruitcake

If the date of the alleged event was the 15th of Jan and the NTK was received on the 27th then there is no mileage with dates, but do check whether the wording of the NTK complies with the strict requirements of the PoFA 2012. There is a link to the PoFA in the NEWBIES or it can easily be found using a search engine of your choice.
If there was no NTD then you should be checking Schedule 4 para 9 of the PoFA against the NTK. This will be your most valuable appeal point at PoPLA if the NTK does not comply, which is why it is vitally important that the scammers never find out who was driving. 
I suggest that it might have been The Driver or An Occupant of the car who bought a ticket so you should edit your post from 11.49 this morning accordingly.