Why are house prices in London so more expensive than the north

fred246

I am trying to work out what the greater opportunities for children in London are. There are good schools all over the country. The best football teams are in the north. The museums are good in London but we've spent hours going round them. You don't have to live in London to go to them. Lots of jobs are paid the same across the country. Some have a little bit of extra pay in London. Get one of those and then live in an area with cheapish housing and you're laughing. I remember walking past some London restaurants with a London student. "What's that one like?" "Dunno I can't afford to go to restaurants". Bit sad really. All their money went on accomodation leaving them penniless.

dinsdale_

fred246 said:

I am trying to work out what the greater opportunities for children in London are. There are good schools all over the country. The best football teams are in the north. The museums are good in London but we've spent hours going round them. You don't have to live in London to go to them. Lots of jobs are paid the same across the country. Some have a little bit of extra pay in London. Get one of those and then live in an area with cheapish housing and you're laughing. I remember walking past some London restaurants with a London student. "What's that one like?" "Dunno I can't afford to go to restaurants". Bit sad really. All their money went on accomodation leaving them penniless.

Look at stats on social mobility in the UK. From the gov.uk Social Mobility Report (2017):
London accounts for nearly two-thirds of all social mobility hotspots
Some of the richest places in England, such as West Berkshire, Cotswold and Crawley, deliver worse outcomes for their disadvantaged children than places that are much poorer such as Sunderland and Tower Hamlets
Apart from London, English cities are punching below their weight on social mobility outcomes. No other city makes it into the top 20%
Schools - 51% of London children on free school meals achieve A* to C in English and maths GCSE compared to an average of 36% of children on free school meals in all other English regions

I feel I am quite lucky with having kids in London, just the options of school trips and activities is very varied (Science museum, Tate, robot workshops, British Museum, Globe theater etc). To be studying ancient Egypt and then be able to see a real two thousand year old mummy within 45 mins travel is pretty cool!

With London the concentration of varied jobs is very high. It is not just about comparing the same job across cities, but considering networks and promotion opportunities etc. I am not saying this is a good thing by the way, I wish the UK was not focused on London at the expense of other cities.

Agree about the cost for students, I think London is stupid expensive and has loads of problems, I am just pointing out the biggest benefit which is the variety and number of opportunities. A lot of people leave London due to prices (don't blame them) but a lot also flock here for access to the good stuff.

Silvertabby

fred246 said:

I have got a lovely house up North with lovely countryside views. Would cost a good few £million in London. I used to go to London conferences. I would squash into the tube. Hardly able to breathe with squashed commuters. The words "it's grim up North" kept repeating themself in my head. Where I worked the women all went on theatre weekends. One knew how to book the cheapest trains in advance and then they would book hotels and the the theatre. I always thought they probably enjoyed London more than people that lived there. They had plenty of cash because they spent relatively little on housing.

Our 4 bed/2 bath with garage, off road parking for 3 cars, and a decent sized garden in a lovely little rural town is probably worth about £300K.  I dread to think how much something similar would go for in London.

It isn't all about salaries, either.  Mr S and I are now retired, but we both worked in the public sector and so couldn't have earned that much more in London.

amandacat

 Putting the obvious aside of higher salaries in London, the factor that always stands out to me is the volume of people in not just London but the surrounding areas, it's an extremely populated area. Therefore demand for housing is going to be much higher and that will push up prices. In many parts of the north, the population isn't as dense, unemployment is higher and salaries are lower. Immigration to the north isn't as high as to London so that will be a factor. 
When you look at population maps of London compared to the rest of the UK, the difference is significant. 

zagubov

Here's some factors  which make London different from the rest of England.
Private education is massive in London. Local parents with high salaries can afford to pay for this. 
A very large proportion of the population include families with parents from cultures or countries that deeply respect education and both strongly support teachers and push their children, and both the state and private education sectors benefit from this.
Both the private and public sector schools have benefited from a large number of young teachers coming here from all over the UK to learn how to teach (and enjoy the buzz and nightlife) and then later moving to the rest of England/the UK to start and bring up families. They've got energy, drive and a good rapport with the young people they teach here. Not expensive to hire as they're at the start of their careers, and salaries are nationally set.
If London has a cold it's reported in the media like the rest of the UK had pneumonia, so problems like poor educational progress or achievement can't be hidden or ignored.

fred246

A child spends more than 90% of their time outside school. I don't actually think that schools make that much difference. A good school will get good results because they are selective, or parents have moved into their catchment area etc. Will a footballer's child go to a private school in London and then on to Oxbridge? There are fantastic schools in the North. I can't imagine moving to London for the schools. Out of interest I was just comparing a nurse in Hull and a nurse in London. The Hull nurse can afford a nice appartment. The London nurse can only afford a parking space. It will be the same for teachers. Public sector workers get a much better life up North.

ZeroSum

fred246 said:

A child spends more than 90% of their time outside school. I don't actually think that schools make that much difference. A good school will get good results because they are selective, or parents have moved into their catchment area etc. Will a footballer's child go to a private school in London and then on to Oxbridge? There are fantastic schools in the North. I can't imagine moving to London for the schools. Out of interest I was just comparing a nurse in Hull and a nurse in London. The Hull nurse can afford a nice appartment. The London nurse can only afford a parking space. It will be the same for teachers. Public sector workers get a much better life up North.

The nurse in Hull will be able to afford a decent family home never mind apartment. 

The schools argument is the same reason faith schools do better. It's not cos the teachers are better, it's cos a higher % of kids have pushy middle class parents who lie about their religion to get the kid into the school. So you end up with less riff raff being disruptive 

dinsdale_

ZeroSum said:

fred246 said:

A child spends more than 90% of their time outside school. I don't actually think that schools make that much difference. A good school will get good results because they are selective, or parents have moved into their catchment area etc. Will a footballer's child go to a private school in London and then on to Oxbridge? There are fantastic schools in the North. I can't imagine moving to London for the schools. Out of interest I was just comparing a nurse in Hull and a nurse in London. The Hull nurse can afford a nice appartment. The London nurse can only afford a parking space. It will be the same for teachers. Public sector workers get a much better life up North.

The nurse in Hull will be able to afford a decent family home never mind apartment. 

The schools argument is the same reason faith schools do better. It's not cos the teachers are better, it's cos a higher % of kids have pushy middle class parents who lie about their religion to get the kid into the school. So you end up with less riff raff being disruptive 

But then why do schools in London consistently do so well in social mobility measures?

I find it odd that people only consider top schools with pushy middle class parents. What about everyone else? Have you visited many schools in London, and were they a representative cross section of the city?

Obviously wealthy parents push their kids into good schools and get tutors etc. and will bump up the schools in the league tables, but that is not the whole picture.

Findings from the Social Mobility Commission:

London accounts for nearly two-thirds of all social mobility hotspots

Schools - 51% of London children on free school meals achieve A* to C in English and maths GCSE compared to an average of 36% of children on free school meals in all other English regions: in the best place (Westminster), 63% get good English and maths GCSEs whereas in the worst (Isle of Wight), only 27% do.

I think network effects and economies of scale create opportunities in larger cities, with London being one of the most prominent global cities. I think there are loads of problems in London, but for social mobility London scores highly in the UK.

fred246

You have to be on benefits to get free school meals. Maybe every one in London is on benefits because they are so poor. Can't see why you would want to move to London to get free school meals. Better just having a job and a good standard of life in the north. Not recommending it to Londoners of course I think they're better off staying there. Leave the north for us to enjoy.

dinsdale_

fred246 said:

You have to be on benefits to get free school meals. Maybe every one in London is on benefits because they are so poor. Can't see why you would want to move to London to get free school meals. Better just having a job and a good standard of life in the north. Not recommending it to Londoners of course I think they're better off staying there. Leave the north for us to enjoy.

Not sure I get your point