My hobby is selling cars, sold car and buyer wants more than a refund

tadley6677

Hi All, as a hobby - i sell about 1 or 2 cars a month that come from a  local garage or a friend of mine. I do this on ebay (auction) and from my home address. I sold a BMW x1 recently at below market value and although listed on ebay, the deal was done outside ebay - cash £2900. The car was listed with a few things needing doing to it, in in my opinion - an honest listing. Ther buyer then proceeded to spend money on the car with bits we both knew needed doing. Then he had it fully serviced and the garage found the the 4 wheel drive system had been changed to 2 wheel drive (which neither  myself or the buyer were aware of when sold). The buyer has spent approx £700 and now is asking for either the car to be fixed at a cost of approx £1000, or for me to give him money back + £1000 for money he has spent. I have already offered him a full refund to return the car as the car was effectively mis described.
I believe it fair and reasonable to do this, and also not sure if i am classed as a motor dealer or not. Can anyone advise and also let me know if i have done the right thing by not agreeing to compensation or a hefty repair bill, but offering him to reject the car with a full refund - thanks in advance

iammumtoone

Just to point out there is no such thing as a hobby when profit is involved (if its selling cars or homemade cakes). This makes you a business where you should be declaring your income and following the relevant legislation for that business.

George_Michael

tadley6677 said:

Hi All, as a hobby - i sell about 1 or 2 cars a month that come from a  local garage or a friend of mine. I do this on ebay (auction) and from my home address. I sold a BMW x1 recently at below market value and although listed on ebay, the deal was done outside ebay - cash £2900.

You are not a hobby seller, you are a vehicle trader and as such, you have to accept all of the obligations that come with this. You said that you were not aware that the 4WD system had been changed to a 2WD system but as a business seller, it is your obligation to ensure that what you sell is as advertised.
If the buyer spent the £700 before finding out that they didn't purchase a 4WD vehicle then legally this £700 may well class as a consequential loss, something that you are liable for.
Also, why did you list on ebay then go outside of this platform to complete the deal? 

tadley6677

iammumtoone said:

Just to point out there is no such thing as a hobby when profit is involved (if its selling cars or homemade cakes). This makes you a business where you should be declaring your income and following the relevant legislation for that business.

Thanks, so if i am trading cars in the eyes of the law - i believed that it was reasonable to offer the buyer a full refund - and also to keep in touch with him (which i have) form the moment he advised me of the issues. But not to be responsible for money he has spent without my authorization?

tadley6677

George_Michael said:

tadley6677 said:

Hi All, as a hobby - i sell about 1 or 2 cars a month that come from a  local garage or a friend of mine. I do this on ebay (auction) and from my home address. I sold a BMW x1 recently at below market value and although listed on ebay, the deal was done outside ebay - cash £2900.

You are not a hobby seller, you are a vehicle trader and as such, you have to accept all of the obligations that come with this. You said that you were not aware that the 4WD system had been changed to a 2WD system but as a business seller, it is your obligation to ensure that what you sell is as advertised.
If the buyer spent the £700 before finding out that they didn't purchase a 4WD vehicle then legally this £700 may well class as a consequential loss, something that you are liable for.
Also, why did you list on ebay then go outside of this platform to complete the deal? 

George_Michael said:

tadley6677 said:

Hi All, as a hobby - i sell about 1 or 2 cars a month that come from a  local garage or a friend of mine. I do this on ebay (auction) and from my home address. I sold a BMW x1 recently at below market value and although listed on ebay, the deal was done outside ebay - cash £2900.

You are not a hobby seller, you are a vehicle trader and as such, you have to accept all of the obligations that come with this. You said that you were not aware that the 4WD system had been changed to a 2WD system but as a business seller, it is your obligation to ensure that what you sell is as advertised.
If the buyer spent the £700 before finding out that they didn't purchase a 4WD vehicle then legally this £700 may well class as a consequential loss, something that you are liable for.
Also, why did you list on ebay then go outside of this platform to complete the deal? 

HI, the buyer offered an amount that i was happy with and asked if we could do it outside ebay so he did not get outbid at the last moment.

tadley6677

PS, i am not trying to dodge my rights etc. i am happy to follow guidance and be classed as a trader, but feel that selling a car for less than £3000 which did have listed faults, should not incur me with a £1000 extra if refunding him, or £1200+++ to repair his car. I believed a refund was the decent thing to do? apart form putting the car on ramps - there was little way to know about the fault.

Aylesbury_Duck

It will depend on how far he takes it and if it goes as far as court, what the court believes is the right outcome.  

I'm afraid you are at some risk here. Not certainly, but it's possible you could be found liable for the consequential costs. 

pinkshoes

tadley6677 said:

iammumtoone said:

Just to point out there is no such thing as a hobby when profit is involved (if its selling cars or homemade cakes). This makes you a business where you should be declaring your income and following the relevant legislation for that business.

Thanks, so if i am trading cars in the eyes of the law - i believed that it was reasonable to offer the buyer a full refund - and also to keep in touch with him (which i have) form the moment he advised me of the issues. But not to be responsible for money he has spent without my authorization?

The buyer should not be out of pocket. It is not their fault. Offer a full refund plus what he has paid for repairs (ask for receipts and all paper work). 

You will then be free to sell the car on for what it is.

It may be your hobby, but buying anything then selling on makes you a business. 

shaun_from_Africa

iammumtoone said:

Just to point out there is no such thing as a hobby when profit is involved (if its selling cars or homemade cakes).

There doesn't even need to be a profit made for the OP to qualify as a business. All that is required is the intention to make a profit even if this doesn't actually happen.
Uber have never declared a profit but no one can deny that they are a business.

DoaM

Lots of people castigating the OP ... as everyone is classing him as a business then all he has to do is put the buyer back in the position as if the contract had never been formed; ergo a full refund. The buyer paying out on repairs to the vehicle was the buyer's choice - they should have contacted the seller first. (That's what we'd say if it was a buyer who posted here).

George_Michael

DoaM said:

Lots of people castigating the OP ... as everyone is classing him as a business then all he has to do is put the buyer back in the position as if the contract had never been formed; ergo a full refund. The buyer paying out on repairs to the vehicle was the buyer's choice - they should have contacted the seller first. (That's what we'd say if it was a buyer who posted here).

All the seller has to do under the CRA is to put the buyer back in the same position (ie, a full refund) but the CRA (19.9) also states that a consumer can take further action to recover any losses above the price paid.
It was only after the time that the extra money had been spent on the  repairs that the buyer found out that the vehicle had been misdescribed (found out during a service) so how could they previously have contacted the seller about something of which they were unaware of?