Sensible questioning or costly barrack-room lawyering: which?

beamerguy

I felt like saying the above in my earlier email today to CEO Steve Rowe, but hadn't the energy to find the words and fit them together together, still less type 'em all out. Besides. I may be old but I'm not stupid enough to be overtly adversarial towards Mr Rowe at this stage.

Listen you, so you are old ???  really, you probably have more brain power than most of us, age brings an amazing amount of knowledge

Do you want help with the letter

Cark

beamerguy said:

I felt like saying the above in my earlier email today to CEO Steve Rowe, but hadn't the energy to find the words and fit them together together, still less type 'em all out. Besides. I may be old but I'm not stupid enough to be overtly adversarial towards Mr Rowe at this stage.

Listen you, so you are old ???  really, you probably have more brain power than most of us, age brings an amazing amount of knowledge
Do you want help with the letter

Many thanks for the encouraging compliment, BG -- and also the offer of help with the letter to Mr Rowe.

The way things are right now, I'm not sure of any brain power at all, but will blunder on as best as possible.

In regard to that letter, it took most of Monday to write and was emailed late in the afternoon.

I had little expectation of an early response, but M&S's Executive Officer has very kindly  and well-nigh instantly replied.

I'll post details here when I've time a little  later today.

D_P_Dance

Are you are shareholder?  If so mention it

nosferatu1001

It wasnt meant as a criticism of you - more that the "meat" could be hidden, and when trying to collate facts its harder. 
Youre doing bloody well
Howver
To my knowlwedge M&S arent being paid by ECP at all. 

Cark

nosferatu1001 said:

It wasnt meant as a criticism of you - more that the "meat" could be hidden, and when trying to collate facts its harder. 
Youre doing bloody well
Howver
To my knowlwedge M&S arent being paid by ECP at all. 

Thanks Nosferatu: I didn't take the post to be vindictive but constructive. Due to impairment of my fingertips' "keyboard memory", I'd really prefer not to write at length any more. But in a situation such as this, frustration battles fatigue and I then start planting so many trees there's a danger the wood can't be seen. Hence your post.

By the way, your knowledge about M&S not being paid by ECP seems reassuringly definitive. So: thanks for that, too.

nosferatu1001

Its worse in some ways, as it shows M&S have been duped into these parasites being there, and arent even making any money from it. 
Its the worst of the old "outsource everything its cheaper model", when they outsource customer service to a company that gets paid even if it pisses off every single one of *your* customers. 

Cark

An  update, at risk of weighing everyone down with further info. Briefly:

(1) I followed some wise advice on here, and penned a polite note to Steven Rowe, M&S CEO, asking if he would kindly arrange for the parking charge to be waived. I managed to get the email completed and sent off by late Monday afternoon.

(2) Yesterday afternoon, (Tuesday), to my surprise I received a courteous reply from Mr Rowe's Executive Office. The signatory explained that as a member of his "Executive team" they were replying on Mr Rowe's behalf.

Let's see if I can copy paste from that email into this post:

Thank you very much for contacting Steve Rowe about the car parking fine you incurred whilst visiting our store. I am a member of our Executive Team and I am replying on his behalf.

The  car park is actually owned and operated by a third party called Euro Car Parks, so I am afraid I can only suggest that you contact them directly.

The car park does have notices to warn customers of the parking terms and conditions, but I hope you can get this matter resolved with the car park operator.

Whilst we appreciate that you have already contacted Euro Car Parks directly regarding this, we are unable to assist from here.

On behalf of Steve, many thanks for contacting us.

Kind regards

Hopefully that has pasted in all right.

As to  the news that M&S / Mr Rowe is "unable to assist" for the reasons given, I'm disappointed  -- but also very grateful for the speed at which a response to my email has been made.

I have now spent some time preparing a response to the sender. Busy day if tiring. (yawn zzzz)

nosferatu1001

They reckon its owned by ECP? Unlikely
Ask the council who pays the NDR. 

MistyZ

Yep, back to who pays the Non Domestic Rates.  Did you contact the council about this Cark?  For a fiver (possibly less) you can find out who owns the land from Land Registry.  

I've skimmed your whole thread but can't find the name of the M&S store / car park.  Could you tell us?  

Cark

Running a bit late here. Thanks for the recent posts, and apologies for forgetting to mention the store: it's a smallish version of a tyhpical supermarket, what Marks & Spencer calls a Food Hall. It is located at 22-27 King Street, Penrith, Cumbria. The Council people haven't so far been able to help with the NDR data but the Land Registry say they'll allow land ownership searches at £3 a time.

I have now replied to the sender of the M&S email, attaching these images 001-00. The first is the store's sign at the rear entrance from the car park). the second and third are of ECP's own signage .

.

My response reads as follows (fingers crosde now for copy an paste):

Dear. . . ,  SIncere thanks for your email of yesterday afternoon. I appreciate that you and your colleagues will be busy with many another commitment during the working day, so am bound to express my gratitude for the way my unbidden correspondence has been dealt with so promptly and so courteously.   It was especially kind of you to provide the much needed clarification that: "the car park is actually owned and operated by a third party called Euro Car Parks". I only wish such clarification had been possible earlier, and particularly in respect of a sign which the store placed at its rear entrance from the car park (picture 001 attached).  As will be seen, although the attention of customers is drawn to the fact that the car park is operated by Euro Car Parks, no mention is made that Euro Car Parks' actually owns it. Though likely unwitting, the omission has proved unhelpful.  As a result, it has never occurred to me that the location in question could have been parcelled into two separate and distinct areas, with the ownership (or the leasing) of one part by Marks & Spencer, and the outright ownership of the other by Euro Car Parks Ltd.  Had I known that, I would very likely have never shopped at the store again, given that the predatory nature of companies such as Euro Car Parks is so well known as to deter sensible folks from ever being in voluntary proximity to them.  Absent clarification of the true position on the store's own signage, I, like every other customer, has been left with the impression that Euro Car Parks is in contractual association with Marks & Spencer. . .  because of what Euro Car Parks says about itself on signage erected in the car park as per Planning applications 17/0971 and 17/0972.  The assertion is unambiguous: Euro Car Parks, in managing the car park,  is acting on behalf of Marks & Spencer.  Please find attached a photograph of one such sign, and an enlargement of the relevant section. (Pictures 002 a 003).  If this signage is a misrepresentation, I trust Marks & Spencer will take this up with Euro Car Parks Ltd so that customers are not, in future, under any misapprehension when visiting the store.
Ends my reply.