Broken clock on electric meter

Gerry1

The OP needs to look at the meter and confirm that the rate changes over at 2330 (e.g. from 2 to 1) and back at 0630.  For peace of mind it would be worthwhile finding out whether the seal on the company's timing device has been broken, and perhaps reporting it if so.  It can then be officially re-sealed which means you can't be accused of tampering if it then goes wrong again.

The OP then needs to establishe whether the storage heaters and immersion heater are switched by the meter's timing device (which mustn't be touched) or by a local timer (which the OP needs to ensure is shadowing the 2330 - 0630 times).

Using that instantaneous shower at peak rate is crazy when hot water is available at E7 cheap rate.  15 minutes @ 10kW @ 15p/kWh x 365 days = £137 per year !

[Deleted User]

OP you have a very common Ampy meter. A very cheap to buy meter and prone to faults. The meter has its own built in timer switch, but seeing as this meter does not allow a scrolling button then you have to view the rates shown on the meter to see whether rate 1 ( day ) or rate 2 (night ) is showing. Try and find exactly when rate 2 appears to find the start of the cheap 7 hours
From my experience as a meter reader, finding a digital Eco 7 meter which has drifted in time as much as 6 hours is quite common. You will have to work round the night rate hours and make better use of the night rate seeing as the cheap rate is now  well into the morning hours and does nt end at say 7 am . It may end around 11 am 
The suppliers are not responsible for the Eco 7 meters timing, although Scottish Power ask us to notify them if the time varies by more than 2 hours..None of the other suppliers appear concerned about incorrect Eco 7 timings..  Virtually all older digital meters I see have drifted  from the correct time and  in BST when the clocks go forward Eco 7 timings move an hour forward .
.They should replace the old Ampy meter with a smart meter which will be spot on its cheap rate timing and should not lose time ,  although it may be more expensive if you manage to adapt around the more accessible cheap rate of your old meter.

catjn

MWT said:

Based on what has been said so far, I suspect there really is just a time clock somewhere close to the meter that was off by 6 hours, this is the way my system was configured for E7 before smart meters and my time clock also went wrong after a few local power issues that caused a few long power cuts.

Eventually the clock went completely wrong and started running slow by about 40% which made a mess of everything of course.

The clock is protected by a seal though and should not have been altered by the electrician...

Thanks for the reply. I have asked the landlord about the 'fix', but he hasn't replied yet.

catjn

Gerry1 said:

The OP needs to look at the meter and confirm that the rate changes over at 2330 (e.g. from 2 to 1) and back at 0630.  For peace of mind it would be worthwhile finding out whether the seal on the company's timing device has been broken, and perhaps reporting it if so.  It can then be officially re-sealed which means you can't be accused of tampering if it then goes wrong again.

The OP then needs to establishe whether the storage heaters and immersion heater are switched by the meter's timing device (which mustn't be touched) or by a local timer (which the OP needs to ensure is shadowing the 2330 - 0630 times).

Using that instantaneous shower at peak rate is crazy when hot water is available at E7 cheap rate.  15 minutes @ 10kW @ 15p/kWh x 365 days = £137 per year !

Thanks for the advice. I checked the meter a hour ago and it is blinking '1' next to the day reading to indicate day hours are on. I will check around 11:30pm to see if '2' starts blinking next to the night reading.

I have asked the landlord about the 'fix' through whatsapp, but he hasn't been forthcoming. At the moment, I can't find the clock.

The landlord did ask me how much I thought I had been overcharged. Whose responsibility was this in your opinion? UK Power Networks? The landlord? I guess EDF won't accept fault.

catjn

Houbara said:

OP you have a very common Ampy meter. A very cheap to buy meter and prone to faults. The meter has its own built in timer switch, but seeing as this meter does not allow a scrolling button then you have to view the rates shown on the meter to see whether rate 1 ( day ) or rate 2 (night ) is showing. Try and find exactly when rate 2 appears to find the start of the cheap 7 hours
From my experience as a meter reader, finding a digital Eco 7 meter which has drifted in time as much as 6 hours is quite common. You will have to work round the night rate hours and make better use of the night rate seeing as the cheap rate is now  well into the morning hours and does nt end at say 7 am . It may end around 11 am 
The suppliers are not responsible for the Eco 7 meters timing, although Scottish Power ask us to notify them if the time varies by more than 2 hours..None of the other suppliers appear concerned about incorrect Eco 7 timings..  Virtually all older digital meters I see have drifted  from the correct time and  in BST when the clocks go forward Eco 7 timings move an hour forward .
.They should replace the old Ampy meter with a smart meter which will be spot on its cheap rate timing and should not lose time ,  although it may be more expensive if you manage to adapt around the more accessible cheap rate of your old meter.

Thanks for the advice. I will check around 11:30pm today to see if the bill is correct about the E7 times.

What do you mean? My bill says the E7 times are 11:30pm to 6:30 am. If it's been fixed, it's surely back to its original hours, right?

I see. Do you think I should ask for a smart meter once this issue has been resolved? I do keep getting emails and leaflets from EDF about how my meter is nearing the end of its lifetime, and that I should upgrade to a smart meter. What are the advantages and disadvantages of upgrading? I suppose my current meter will keep drifting off over time?

Gerry1

IANAL, but my thoughts are:-

If the meter itself is wrong then I'd expect EDF to put you back to the position in which you would have been by refunding you the excess charges, plus a goodwill payment.

However, if it's a local timer provided by the landlord, as seems much more likely, then it's probably just bad luck.  Seems he's fixed it promptly so he's done all that can be reasonably expected.  If you can't easily check that it's showing the correct time and / or you weren't warned about the need to check, you could argue that it's not fit for purpose because it should be the type that has battery backup.  But at best you might get a goodwill rent reduction.

Above all, you need to understand how your E7 works.  Getting the immersion heater working only on E7 would be a good start - how do you wash the dishes without hot water, not to mention the money wasting instantaneous shower.  Have a look and see whether the storage radiators or immersion heater switches have neon indicators.  That would be a good way to spot usage at the wrong times.

catjn

Gerry1 said:

IANAL, but my thoughts are:-

If the meter itself is wrong then I'd expect EDF to put you back to the position in which you would have been by refunding you the excess charges, plus a goodwill payment.

However, if it's a local timer provided by the landlord, as seems much more likely, then it's probably just bad luck.  Seems he's fixed it promptly so he's done all that can be reasonably expected.  If you can't easily check that it's showing the correct time and / or you weren't warned about the need to check, you could argue that it's not fit for purpose because it should be the type that has battery backup.  But at best you might get a goodwill rent reduction.

Above all, you need to understand how your E7 works.  Getting the immersion heater working only on E7 would be a good start - how do you wash the dishes without hot water, not to mention the money wasting instantaneous shower.  Have a look and see whether the storage radiators or immersion heater switches have neon indicators.  That would be a good way to spot usage at the wrong times.

I see. Thanks for explaining. I wasn't warned about needing to check a clock. I asked my landlord what I should tell EDF; he says to tell them the bill is wrong. However, I have yet to receive a reply on how I will prove it if his electrician fixed the clock. I now have only the pictures for 5th to 8th, and my monthly consumption patterns which shows January is completely atypical. EDF tells me everything "tallies up", but I can't see how this is the case. Could you possibly explain in greater detail about what went wrong? If the clock was off by six hours, does it only mean that the meter reading is incorrect, or did my storage heater actually draw electricity during peak hours?

I do the dishes in cold water. Well, I know my flat has an electric connection, but no gas. As such, I didn't give much thought about using an electric shower. I know there is a switch for hot water, along with a tank like object, in a closet inside my kitchen. Is this the immersion heater? I didn't realise using this would be cheaper. And there is a switch for the storage heater in the main fuse box. Are these the switches I need to check?

[Deleted User]

People do get a refund from some suppliers and its worth having a go.If you state that you have been waiting for the cheap night rate to , take a shower, put the washing/drier on etc, only to find out that for years you have been using the pricey day rate , then EDF as one of the more responsible suppliers , will give a goodwill gesture refund . .. Hopefully your Eco 7 night storage heaters would have been only using the cheap night rate where they are linked only to the active night rate .
 Many digital meters do not show any clocks at all to check what time the meter "thinks " it is .You would have   seen it as the meter scrolls round, The active rate is when the 1 or 2 pulses  so the only way you would know which rate was active  would be when rate 1 or 2 started flashing/pulsing ..Virtually no older  Eco 7 digital meters stick to the published times and that is the same for the even older analogue Eco 7 meters which are even wider out of time . Radio Teleswitch meters stick religiously to the published times but smart Eco 7 should also stick exactly to the published times , so that is what EDF will install .Bear in mind it is only "smart " whilst you stay with EDF 

Richie-from-the-Boro

CU, the consumer unit / fusebox. A phone photo put here would tell the group [they're usually labelled even if it's pencil] what amp fuses you have. There's usually a small separate pair of 20a for water + heating.

Additionally a photo put here of immersion single / double and water controller will give group clues about what you actually have and intuitive clues for example PartL standard wiring.

Best of luck.

catjn

I think I have found the clock for my meter. It's next to the storage heater switch in the main fuse box. It's a grasslin timer and looks a bit like this one oeg. net/ en / timer-graesslin-tactic-211-1-210209020. I also have a Horstmann Economy 7 Quartz Timeclock for the water, sitting above this big yellow tank connected to pipes. Looks like this alertelectrical. com / horstmann-economy-7-quartz-timeclock.html?prod_id=3336&aid=3336&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIsIacwtLF5wIVRrTtCh3wZQK2EAQYASABEgIBO_D_BwE. I guess this is an immersion heater?