HMO Eviction

chanz4

I had the same issue with a hmo that was left to us, section 21 had to be given

dacouch

silvercar said:

Comms69 wrote: »

Just like any change of landlord the owner just steps into the shoes of the old.


Valid ASTs.

Only if the landlord sold the property on.

If the sub landlord acted in a way that promised something it couldn't guarantee, like a 2 months notice period, then the sub landlord is liable to pay compensation to the tenants for breaching their rights.

Interesting.
It appears my friends Landlord who is a Limited Company (Payments via bank transfer to a limited company name) has rented the property from a friend of his and then let it out as a HMO. Have heard the Limited co has gone into Administration.
When renting the property, my friend understood he was dealing with the landlord and there was no mention of anyone else involved
I will check ultimate ownership of the property on the Land Registry

dacouch

My friend spoke to Shelter, they're opinion is that the owner would have been aware the house was being sublet so they will become liable as Landlord to serve notice if the commercial renting contract has ceased with my friend's immediate landlord.
Their recommendation is to speak to the officer at the Local Council to discuss the matter further and get them to intervene in what Shelter think would be an illegal eviction if the property notice is not served

Shelter mentioned the Landlords may try and argue that rather than an assured shorthold tenancy that it was a licenced tenancy (Even though no contracts were signed by anyone). Shelter think this would fail as the rooms are all self contained with their own locks, no cleaning of the tenants rooms and none of the tenants are employed by the Landlord eg tenancy subject to employment by landlord

gld73

I'm going through a similar situation, but I'm the homeowner who has legally become the landlord as the person/limited company who rented it has stopped paying me rent and has, in effect, done a runner. His company is late filing last year's accounts, which is a good sign it's about to go bust (...and no doubt he'll set up another).  I've had to instruct a solicitor and a letting agent which isn't at all cheap (especially as the tenants are not paying me rent), but I wanted to make sure I did things properly. My intention was to try and do a smooth transition so that the tenants didn't suffer at all, but as they have used the change in landlord as an excuse to live rent-free, I'm now going to have to sell the house as soon as possible. I believe that 2 months notice is required - that's what has been given to the tenants in my house on my behalf, though of course they can leave with one month's notice if they choose to counter-serve notice to leave earlier.
Section 21 is the no-fault notice giving 2 months notice. The back-up I have is that I could serve a Section 8 notice as they've not been paying rent.
2 weeks notice, as per the OP, seems far too short.

dacouch

Update
He has spoken to council, they checked and the house is not registered as a HMO, they confirmed that they feel it would be an illegal eviction without formal 2 month notice.
He has got home today to find his own room unlocked and builders in the house who are currently fitting new flooring and a new shower.
Does anyone have any suggestions on next move?
We're thinking letters to the "Landlord" and the owner of the property (Two copies sent from different post offices with proof of postage retained) advising the landlords that this would be an illegal eviction without formal two months notice

m0bov

Did he change the lock? Why dont you ask them to leave?

dacouch

m0bov said:

Did he change the lock? Why dont you ask them to leave?
He has not changed the locks as he is not sure whether that can be done on a HMO
The council looked the property up and confirmed it's not registered with them as a HMO (It's compulsory in his area). Technically any section 21 they issue without it being registered would be invalid, he does not want to go down that route just get the two months notice they're entitled to or an acceptable alternative.
The council said they won't take any action re the unregistered HMO but said that if he becomes a pain they would happily become involved

oldbikebloke

dacouch said:

Update
He has spoken to council, they checked and the house is not registered as a HMO, they confirmed that they feel it would be an illegal eviction without formal 2 month notice.
He has got home today to find his own room unlocked and builders in the house who are currently fitting new flooring and a new shower.
Does anyone have any suggestions on next move?
We're thinking letters to the "Landlord" and the owner of the property (Two copies sent from different post offices with proof of postage retained) advising the landlords that this would be an illegal eviction without formal two months notice

what outcome do you "want"?
you have taken the obvious action of informing YOUR LL that they are attempting illegal eviction.
The ultimate property owner cannot evict you at all since you have no contractual relationship with them (assuming, for example,. you have not suddenly started paying rent direct to them).

It is now a matter between your LL and his LL (the owner). if it kicks off, you simply draw whoever's attention to your rights as a tenant to: a) 2 months notice and b) the requirement for a court order, and the attendance of court appointed bailiffs before you can be physically removed from the property.
Anything else is illegal eviction and will rebound on "them" when you win compo  

dacouch

m0bov said:

Did he change the lock? Why dont you ask them to leave?

Sorry I must have exited out without saving my last message (Not liking the new look forum)
He spoke to local council yesterday, they checked and it's not registered as a HMO with them and it should be if it's a HMO in that area. They confirmed they feel it's an illegal eviction and said they would become involved if the landlord becomes nasty. Interestingly it seems any section 21 notice is invalid without a HMO being registered, although he does not want to go down that route just either get two months notice or a suitable financial arrangement.

When he returned from work yesterday there are builders in the house installing a new shower, changing doors and they have also laid a new wooded floor in the corridors. The tenants rooms were all unlocked and it's clear that at some stage they will be installing a new wooden floor inside their rooms. Judging by current behaviour he expects them to just move all his stuff out while he is at work and then just pile it back into the room when they've finished... Landlord (Ultimate owner of house) also showing potential tenants (Families to rent the entire house) around the house most of yesterday morning

Having read this part of the forum for a few years I'm proposing to him that a letter is sent to each landlord (Two copies for each sent from different post offices with proof of posting retained) formally advising the Landlord / Landlords that this would be an illegal eviction and two months written notice is required or a suitable alternative arrangement agreed. Will also inform the police of a potential illegal eviction so they can note their files.

Is this the best way forward or does anyone else have any suggestions?

m0bov

Best he speaks with the council, sounds like he is all but evicted if they are rebuilding the house around him. I'd get the locks changed and call 101 if someone enters. Make sure he tells the builders that.