Do I need to pay for broadband I didn't sign up for?

D8D

Hi, bit of a complicated one..
In August 2017 I cancelled my service with Origin Broadband. While the new provider (UNO) was in the process of setting things up, Origin had mistakenly sent an order to Openreach and had taken over our line again, without our knowledge or consent. This caused quite a mess and left us with no internet for a while. At that point, Origin apologised for the mistake and due to the inconvenience reconnected us fully to their service for free, confirming in an email: "Due to the inconvenience of Origin Broadband taking over your line after a cancellation was placed with us, we have agreed to allow you to use our service free of charge until you're able to migrate the service to another supplier."
At that time, I moved out of the flat and advised the new tenants of the situation (it's a flatshare), saying they should set up the broadband with a new provider.
Fast forward to January 2020. Origin had contacted me saying the line had remained live all this time, broadband had been used throughout that period, and I now have to pay them for 2.5 years of usage (almost £900). The tenants had since changed again and the new ones say they simply assumed broadband is included in the rent (whether they're being honest or not is irrelevant).

My question is - am I liable by law to pay this to Origin? I cancelled my service/contract with them in 2017, they took over the line without our consent and kept it live for free due to the inconvenience (they now claim this is normally meant to be for 30 days but there was no mention of this in the email). I understand broadband has been used by my tenants all this time so Origin are now seeking payment for this, but as I see it - it's their mistake and their responsibility, no? I don't have any contract with them, I've cancelled it 2.5 years ago, do I still need to pay for the service being used on the line they kept live on their own accord?

They're threatening me with passing on this 'debt' to debt collectors, which will obviously impact my credit score/history very negatively, so even though I believe I'm in the right here I'm worried of the consequences of their actions and feel I'm with my back against the wall.

Advice please?

Neil_Jones

So did you place an order with another supplier or not? Presumably not if the line is still with Origin, so its probably safe to say since you didn't migrate away but the service continued to be used, so it was deemed to be accepted.

D8D

I didn't. After Origin took over the line without our knowing and then left it live for free due to the inconvenience I moved out and rented the flat out, I advised the tenants they need to set up a contract with a new provider - which they apparently never did.
But at no point did I make any agreement/contract with Origin, or was given any notice of the line remaining live and the broadband continuing to being used. I haven't heard anything from Origin so assumed the line has been taken over by a new provider arranged by my tenants.
There was no timeframe given on the free service either, if it was meant to be for 30 days like they're now claiming, why didn't they simply stop the service at that point?

Again, we have no agreement or contract, they've been providing internet to my flat without my knowledge and my tenants have simply used it for as long as it was live (offered for free without a set timeframe), also without my knowledge. Am I liable to pay for a service I didn't sign up or agree for??

esuhl

D8D wrote: »

we have agreed to allow you to use our service free of charge until you're able to migrate the service to another supplier.

Were you unable to migrate to another ISP?

D8D wrote: »

My question is - am I liable by law to pay this to Origin? I cancelled my service/contract with them in 2017...

You didn't cancel the service -- Origin re-connected you, presumably with your consent, so the contract would be in force until you cancel the service (either explicitly or by switching ISPs).

D8D

esuhl wrote: »

You didn't cancel the service -- Origin re-connected you, presumably with your consent, so the contract would be in force until you cancel the service (either explicitly or by switching ISPs).

I did cancel the service. I have a written confirmation from Origin my service has been cancelled. Origin took over our line WITHOUT our consent AFTER the cancellation, and AFTER we already signed up with a new ISP (UNO) and were waiting for the line to go live. Origin's taking over the line prevented from the new ISP, UNO, to complete the switch and the UNO order had to be cancelled. Origin then offered to keep the line live for free due to the inconvenience they caused (also confirmed in writing). They now say this was meant to be for 30 days, however at the time no timeframe was given (they kept the line live until now as an oversight on their behalf, once they realised their mistake, 2.5 years later, they only then disconnected it and contacted me saying I need to pay for the service used over that period).

Spoke to Citizens Advice Bureau today and they say Origin effectively breached our original contract as they didn't cancel our order despite our instructions, and despite confirming the cancellation to us in writing. Any thoughts?

esuhl wrote: »

Were you unable to migrate to another ISP?

I moved out of the flat when Origin took over the line (without our consent), they kept the line live 'until we're able to switch to a new provider' (there was no set time frame). I made the new tenant who moved in instead of me aware of the situation, and advised them they need to sign up to a new ISP. It has now transpired they didn't do that, they simply continued to use the free live line provided (that tenant doesn't live there anymore either). Origin didn't contact me about the line being live and broadband being used until January 2020. But again, I cancelled my service with them in August 2017, they took over the line afterwards WITHOUT my consent, kept the line live for free without giving a time limit or stopping it at any point, or contacting us at any point to make us aware of the situation and tell us they intend to bill us for the service if not stopped, until now.

esuhl

D8D wrote: »

Spoke to Citizens Advice Bureau today and they say Origin effectively breached our original contract as they didn't cancel our order despite our instructions, and despite confirming the cancellation to us in writing. Any thoughts?

Origin had no authority to take the line back after you tried to leave. To make good on that, you gave them permission to retain their services on your line.

Normally, broadband contracts are in place indefinitely, until you cancel them. Origin only told you the service would be free until you are able to find an alternative ISP.

The only way I think you could have a case is if you can show that you were unable to change ISP or if Origin were negligent in not reminding you that you hadn't cancelled the renewed contract.

If it were me and I wanted to fight this, the first thing I'd do is to make a data access request, asking Origin for any call logs, call recordings/transcriptions that they hold to see if they can support your case that the re-establishment of the contract was not made clear.

I'm no lawyer, but I don't think you have a strong case... Good luck, though. I can imagine you must be livid!

esuhl

Don't know if Ofcom could help:
https://www.ofcom.org.uk/phones-telecoms-and-internet/how-to-report-a-complaint/sales

D8D

Thanks for this.

esuhl wrote: »

Normally, broadband contracts are in place indefinitely, until you cancel them.

Yes, but I did cancel my original contract. Everything that followed - them taking over the line and and leaving it live until January 2020 - happened after my cancellation, so I didn't have any contract with them at that point. They're asking me to pay for a service without any contract between us, in fact they are the ones who breached our original contract by not cancelling the line appropriately as I requested. No?

esuhl wrote: »

Origin only told you the service would be free until you are able to find an alternative ISP.

Yes, but there was no timeframe specified by them, they are now saying it was meant to be 30 days, but i wasn't informed of this at the time. Nor was I informed what would happen if an alternative ISP doesn't take over the line. There were no T&C's informing me the service will then become chargeable if a not switched to a new ISP, I wasn't informed or agree to any of this. I moved out of the flat with confirmation the line will be kept live for free due to their mistake until the new tenant signs up with a new ISP (the fact the new tenant didn't is unfortunate but is besides the point, Origin and I had no contract at that point, only an offer from them to keep the line live for free.

esuhl wrote: »

The only way I think you could have a case is if you can show that you were unable to change ISP or if Origin were negligent in not reminding you that you hadn't cancelled the renewed contract.

I moved out. Plus as mentioned above, I don't think it's my responsibility. They should've reminded me, say it'll become a chargeable service, or disconnected the line. They are now trying to get payment off me based on imaginary T&C's they've decided on without my knowledge or opting in to. Surely that has no legal standing?

esuhl wrote: »

If it were me and I wanted to fight this, the first thing I'd do is to make a data access request, asking Origin for any call logs, call recordings/transcriptions that they hold to see if they can support your case that the re-establishment of the contract was not made clear.

I do have all the emails from 2017, including the cancellation confirmation, the apology for taking over the line without my permission after the cancellation, and the offer to keep the line live for free - which mentions no other terms.

esuhl wrote: »

I'm no lawyer, but I don't think you have a strong case... Good luck, though. I can imagine you must be livid!

Appreciated, I think I do have a case. Citizens Advice Bureau seems to agree. I'll try to get more advice tomorrow from Ofcom too. And yes, I'm absolutely livid. I'm trying to follow all the correct steps to dispute this, probably try to get an ADR involved (any experience with this anyone?), I'm just worried they'll pass this made-up 'debt' to a collection agency and have it appear on my credit score. I can fight this as much as I can but they can very easily damage my credit profile, regardless if they're in the wrong.

littleboo

The offer from Origin was to enable you to migrate to a new ISP - an action that had been hindered by them. It would be reasonable to expect the service from them to be in place for a matter of weeks of a couple of months at most whilst you did this. You didn't follow through by migrating to a new supplier, which was party of the offer from Origin to you. You/your tenant have been benefiting from the service, its not as if an alternative service was used, plus, if you had migrated to a new supplier as you originally intended, you would have been paying for a 12/18/24 month contract from August 2017 anyway. So I think you need to come to an arrangement between you and your tenant, and between you and Origin.

D8D

littleboo wrote: »

The offer from Origin was to enable you to migrate to a new ISP - an action that had been hindered by them. It would be reasonable to expect the service from them to be in place for a matter of weeks of a couple of months at most whilst you did this. You didn't follow through by migrating to a new supplier, which was party of the offer from Origin to you. You/your tenant have been benefiting from the service, its not as if an alternative service was used, plus, if you had migrated to a new supplier as you originally intended, you would have been paying for a 12/18/24 month contract from August 2017 anyway. So I think you need to come to an arrangement between you and your tenant, and between you and Origin.

I agree a reasonable time to migrate a service would be a couple of months at most, however a timeframe hasn't been specified, and more importantly - no terms of what would happen should a migration not happen have been specified either. They should've stopped the service, or contact me/the new tenant to make aware the line would be chargeable should a migration not take place. Moreover, the line was kept live for the property, not for me - I didn't have any contract with them at that point as they took over the line AFTER my cancellation. It was explained to them on the phone at the time (unfortunately not by email) that I'm moving out within a week and a new tenant (who's now back in Australia) would be moving in, so the line was kept live for free because of their mistake so that I and the new tenant wouldn't be left without internet in that period - due to their mistake of going rogue and taking over the line (so no, I wouldn't have paid for the service in that address for the past 2.5 years anyway. I paid for internet in my new address with a new ISP, unrelated to this whole mess).

They're trying to bill me for this now because I was their last point of contact in that address. But the fact remains, I cancelled my service with them. They took over the line without my consent. I had no contract with them when the line was left live for that address. And they didn't specify how long would the line be kept live for, or what would happen after that point if no migration takes place. They can't just randomly smack a bill on me because of a series of failings on their behalf, I have no legal relationship with them nor did I use their service.

littleboo

well its a mess for sure, I just don think you can put 100% of the blame onto them. It could be argued that you accepted their offer to have broadband for free for a limited time, because you didn't reject the offer and you continued to use the service. It should also be clear in your agreement with your tenant if Broadband is inclusive of not. If its not included, then they have been taking the mickey and could reasonably be expected to contribute something for their usage.
I hope you get a resolution, my point is it might be better to come to a compromise to settle the matter.