Clone Car Guide - Protect yourself

samy4127

Hi Guys,

Back in December 2018 I became victim of purchasing a cloned car which turned out to be stolen. This was later seized and myself being out of pocket of £20k.

I am creating a guide and sharing my experience of the things to watch out for when purchasing a car.

How to protect yourself

1: Check VIN number is genuine on the windscreen, also check if another VIN is not covering the genuine VIN underneath, you can check this from inside by looking closely near the trim and windscreen without the need of stripping down the vehicle.

2: Check the VIN number under the driver seat (Mercedes models has the VIN under driver seat) different for other models, check owners manual for location.

3: Check the blade key works not just the remote control that locks/unlocks a car. (Mercedes models the blade key is usually for emergencies, other models you may need to check)

4: Connect a portable diagnostic scanner which you plug in the OBD usually underneath the steering foot well on the drivers side. This will show the genuine VIN number as these cannot be reprogrammed. (Ask seller if they are OK for you to do this)

5: Check the V5C for inaccuracies/check watermark and v5 serial number.

6: Do not pay in cash, always bank transfer so at least you have the hope of recovering that money.

7: If a car is worth £20k and someone is selling it for £5k you might want to consider that this is ringing alarm bells.

8: Always make sure the address on the V5C is matching the address you are purchasing the car from.

9: Do not go by yourself, take someone else with you.

10: If you are checking out a car and it turns out to be a cloned car be careful you do not get mugged or play it out smoothly saying you will go and get the money out and will be back in 20 minutes (come back with police).

11: Check the V5C to ensure the Document reference number has all the digits and is valid on the GOV website. You can apply for road tax using the new keepers slip before paying or at least check if the number is valid online. This confirms the details on the V5C are genuine.

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I've become a victim of Clone Car (See questions below)

What if you do end up buying a clone car?
Whether you like it or not the car will be seized by DVLA who inform the police and they will seize your car which is returned to insurance to be sold on or purchased back.

I paid by bank transfer for the car, how can I get my money back?
As soon as you find out the car is cloned immediately contact your bank and the bank you sent the money to. Provide them with as much information as you can. Action Fraud to lodge the fraud and get yourself a Crime Reference number. Provide this to both of the banks.

I paid cash for the car, how can I get my money back?
Unfortunately as you know with cash you cannot trace this or get this back. You can try and investigate and see if there is anything else you can do to find the clone gang ring behind this. But chances are unlikely.

I paid for HPI Key Cover that guarantees cover?
The cover will show the correct information the VIN number/Reg you provide, if that all matches and is clear then there is nothing you can do as the service has been correctly been provided.
They do not cover for Clone Cars.

What if I do not tell the police or DVLA?
Then they will not seize your car because it hasn't been reported but then knowingly this is illegal as you will be driving a clone car which underneath is a stolen car.

Can I not sell it to someone else?
No because you could go to prison for selling a cloned car that in reality isn't yours or registered to you.

Will my insurance pay out for this?
Insurance will not payout for a clone car that is stolen because the identity of the vehicle is different to the one you have it insured too.

But I have a V5C?
I also had a V5C which was real but printed with fake details of the clone car, my document reference number had one digit missing which at the time I did not noticed.

Please ask any questions you can think of, I will continue to add more in due course.

I have been through the struggle and pain with this and have explored every aspect. I just don't want anyone else to fall victim of this scam. We have to fight back and protect ourselves as this sort of money isn't a small amount and can be life changing for some people.

Thanks

EdGasketTheSecond

Thank you for the information. Can I ask which of the above checks would have saved you from buying your clone; presumably you carried out some of the checks?

samy4127

Thank you for the information. Can I ask which of the above checks would have saved you from buying your clone; presumably you carried out some of the checks?

Point 1: A sponge holding a clone vin was covering the real vin.
Point 2: The vin in the clone/stolen car I bought was sanded down under the driver seat so no vin was present.
Point 6: I've learnt not to carry £20k in cash now.
Point 4: Portable diagnostic scanner would have revealed the true vin, these are £20-£30 on ebay.

These 3 thorough checks would have prevented me from buying the car on the day and I would have called the police. And point 6 not to pay cash for a high value car.

Yep done loads of checks, 2 HPI's, spec check, vin check, he even gave me V5C serial number to finalize HPI protection cover and that was clear. Even on the day, the address matched v5 address to were I was, went inside the house. But turns out was dodgy apartment. Car had no tail signs at that time.

EdGasketTheSecond

Thanks!


I found your original thread and note approx. £9K was paid by bank transfer. Did you recover that money?

Couldn't the scammer or an acomplice be traced through the bank account to which the bank transfer was made or was that also set up with fake information or aren't the banks/police interested in pursuing it?

Shaun_of_the_Dead

EdGasketTheSecond wrote: »

Thanks!


I found your original thread and note approx. £9K was paid by bank transfer. Did you recover that money?

Couldn't the scammer or an acomplice be traced through the bank account to which the bank transfer was made or was that also set up with fake information or aren't the banks/police interested in pursuing it?

Shame he never updated that thread.

forgotmyname

1. Name 100 cars where the windscreen VIN is buried into the dash and inaccessible without removing the dash. Impossible for a buyer to check without a major stripdown.

2. A well cloned car will have all the correct numbers.

3. Would be a pretty poor scammer if they didnt have keys.

4. Wrong..

5. Seal check? What seal?

6. Wrong. Bank transfer is as good as giving cash away though. Loads of threads where people were scammed by bank transfer and they could not get their money back.
Sometimes its an innocent party used as a money mule.


10. Muggers tend not to advertise cloned cars and you wont get a chance to go away and come back. They want your money and likely to rob you before you even see the car.

EdGasketTheSecond

Like this:
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/couple-robbed-beaten-gunpoint-after-21364122


and this:
https://www.itv.com/news/anglia/2020-01-27/norfolk-couple-robbed-at-gunpoint-after-buying-a-car-on-ebay/


Less effort than cloning; just use a bit of brute force. Not so much finesse about it though.


Maybe the best defense is to buy a car that is over-priced as it is likely to be a genuine sale.

samy4127

EdGasketTheSecond wrote: »

Thanks!


I found your original thread and note approx. £9K was paid by bank transfer. Did you recover that money?

Couldn't the scammer or an acomplice be traced through the bank account to which the bank transfer was made or was that also set up with fake information or aren't the banks/police interested in pursuing it?

Yes thankfully the banks fraud team recovered that money. The clone car ring gang know that they will never see that £9k so they use a random persons bank account. They don’t care as their profit is the cash.

The woman whose account the money I transferred to was a 88 year old the fraud team told me. And they had also used it to scam a few other people.

I was continuously pestering the police to do more. But thanks to the banks they acted fast. I managed to make a few insider police friends who gave me an insight on how they operate etc

samy4127

forgotmyname wrote: »

1. Name 100 cars where the windscreen VIN is buried into the dash and inaccessible without removing the dash. Impossible for a buyer to check without a major stripdown.

2. A well cloned car will have all the correct numbers.

3. Would be a pretty poor scammer if they didnt have keys.

4. Wrong..

5. Seal check? What seal?

6. Wrong. Bank transfer is as good as giving cash away though. Loads of threads where people were scammed by bank transfer and they could not get their money back.
Sometimes its an innocent party used as a money mule.


10. Muggers tend not to advertise cloned cars and you wont get a chance to go away and come back. They want your money and likely to rob you before you even see the car.

1: Actually I didn’t remove anything or strip anything down, I looked closely and could see a sponge holding another vin plate over the real one. I removed it afterwards with my hands and saw the real vin which was a stolen car. I’m simply informing users to be vigilant as a lot of scams and fraud taking place everywhere. I lost £20k of my hard earned money but at the same time i’m hoping to help others see the things i learnt from my experience going through this.

2. They scraped it off completely using a metal grinder so no vin under driver seat where it should be. So if anyone buys a car and doesn’t see a vin there then questions and alarm bells.

3. With a mercedes key, the digital part of the remote worked fine but the blade to manually open the car door in case of an emergency did not match. This blade is for emergencies not for usual operation.

4. This point a buyer should ask the seller if they can do this, when you purchase an rac inspection to inspect a car your interested in buying they do this to see if any hidden faults.

5. Sorry I meant the water mark on the v5 at the top right corner were v5 serial number is. On the older v5’s. New v5 recently came out as well.

6. In my case the fraud team at the banks recovered my money i paid via bank transfer after 4 months of reporting, but i guess this depends on the situation and timeframe of it being reported to police/banks.

10. They had advertised on ebay auction and classified ads using stolen ebay accounts with lots of feedback. They also advertised 18 plate Golf R, New shape A class 18 plate. Unfortunately people fell victim to that scam also the police told me.

I agree if i turned the car down they most probably would have robbed me as your right they only want the money in the end.

samy4127

EdGasketTheSecond wrote: »

Like this:
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/couple-robbed-beaten-gunpoint-after-21364122


and this:
https://www.itv.com/news/anglia/2020-01-27/norfolk-couple-robbed-at-gunpoint-after-buying-a-car-on-ebay/


Less effort than cloning; just use a bit of brute force. Not so much finesse about it though.


Maybe the best defense is to buy a car that is over-priced as it is likely to be a genuine sale.

It just goes to show these people don’t care and in this day and age all we can do is try to inform as many people as we can to ensure they don’t also become victims as this type of crime is rising and police said they know about it but catching them is becoming very difficult.

Shaun_of_the_Dead

samy4127 wrote: »

1: Actually I didn’t remove anything or strip anything down, I looked closely and could see a sponge holding another vin plate over the real one. I removed it afterwards with my hands and saw the real vin which was a stolen car. I’m simply informing users to be vigilant as a lot of scams and fraud taking place everywhere. I lost £20k of my hard earned money but at the same time i’m hoping to help others see the things i learnt from my experience going through this.

2. They scraped it off completely using a metal grinder so no vin under driver seat where it should be. So if anyone buys a car and doesn’t see a vin there then questions and alarm bells.

3. With a mercedes key, the digital part of the remote worked fine but the blade to manually open the car door in case of an emergency did not match. This blade is for emergencies not for usual operation.

4. This point a buyer should ask the seller if they can do this, when you purchase an rac inspection to inspect a car your interested in buying they do this to see if any hidden faults.

5. Sorry I meant the water mark on the v5 at the top right corner were v5 serial number is. On the older v5’s. New v5 recently came out as well.

6. In my case the fraud team at the banks recovered my money i paid via bank transfer after 4 months of reporting, but i guess this depends on the situation and timeframe of it being reported to police/banks.

10. They had advertised on ebay auction and classified ads using stolen ebay accounts with lots of feedback. They also advertised 18 plate Golf R, New shape A class 18 plate. Unfortunately people fell victim to that scam also the police told me.

I agree if i turned the car down they most probably would have robbed me as your right they only want the money in the end.

That's not what he said and an unlikely scenario anyway.