New Member: SIP Car Parking PCN Appeal Advice Required

Cutroses

Looking for further advice - The keeper of the vehicle has been changed as advised above. Although, the previous keeper has received a 'Legal Action Letter'. Should this person forgive the driver's information e.g. name, address, and contact number as requested in the letter(s)? 
Please note that on the initial appeal, this information was already willingly given. My concern is that the previous keeper is stressed about this situation and would not like to appear in court and if the information requested is not handed over, they will be unwillingly dragged into this? However, the driver is intent on fighting this. What should they do?

Any help and advice is greatly appreciated.

BrownTrout

SIP are one of the only companies who routinely apply for keeper details even when a driver appeal has been made

Coupon-mad

Should this person forgive the driver's information e.g. name, address, and contact number as requested in the letter(s)? 
Please note that on the initial appeal, this information was already willingly given. My concern is that the previous keeper is stressed about this situation and would not like to appear in court and if the information requested is not handed over, they will be unwillingly dragged into this? However, the driver is intent on fighting this. What should they do?

My previous reply already answered this dilemma in full.

Cutroses

Coupon-mad - apologies, just wanting to clarify as my previous question was regarding changing the keeper of the vehicle which has now been done. 

The dilemma now refers to whether the previous keeper (who is not actually involved whatsoever) should hand over the driver's personal information or not? Could the previous keeper be dragged into legal proceedings regardless of whether they were involved or not as they did not give the information upon request?

Thank you in advance for clarifying.

nosferatu1001

The previous keeper has no liability in this, if they've provided the details of the actual keeper

Cutroses

nosferatu1001 - Thanks for the reply. The previous keeper has not yet handed over any details, although the actual driver has given all this information when they appealed. 

Should the previous keeper hand over information again to ensure they do not get dragged into proceedings or is this not required?

Coupon-mad

Although, the previous keeper has received a 'Legal Action Letter'. 

Could the previous keeper be dragged into legal proceedings regardless of whether they were involved or not as they did not give the information upon request?

My concern is that the previous keeper is stressed about this situation and would not like to appear in court and if the information requested is not handed over, they will be unwillingly dragged into this? However, the driver is intent on fighting this. What should they do?

Hoped my reply made it clear:

YES: a vulnerable keeper who is still getting letters but is not up to court, names the driver and gives their address now, if that driver is the robust one of the two.

Coupon-mad

Cutroses said:

Newbie thread read. Appealed and it was rejected (I know). It's been going on 4 years and now have a court date. Counterclaimed harassment due to several instances where drivers details were given but continue to go after keeper. 

The defence is that driver details have already been given on more than one occasion.  

1. Should driver also come to court (they are happy to) or is it a separate case now?

2. Should case be built to defend initial issuing of PCN by driver? Driver has valid ticket (still to this day) - is this enough?

3. How detailed should witness statements be e.g. include laws / defense or leave this for a separate defence statement? 

Also the defence template has lots of information on excess charges, but my case is more that I wasn't the driver and this information has already been surrendered. Is this sufficient?  

Help and reassurance appreciated greatly. 

You started a new thread but should have posted here on your thread.  Even though it's from 2020 it gives us the context we need.

The NEWBIES thread doesn't mention Excess Charges which are council PCNs. I guess you are talking about the fake added DRA fees.

Anyway, to answer your questions:

1.  No definitely not. That puts them in the firing line for a claim, if the PPC fails against you.

2.  Nope.  You are the Defendant.  You are defending as keeper and your WS bundle should look like the ones linked in the 2nd post of the NEWBIES thread.  But even longer, or with a separate skeleton argument (see NEWBIES thread for the difference) because you need to 'sing for your supper' to persuasively argue the Counterclaim, too.   You won't succeed if you don't argue it properly.

3. VERY detailed. As above.

You've already done your defence & counterclaim.  Show us exactly how you pleaded it.  We need to see your defence and counterclaim (we assume you paid a fee?).

Cutroses

Coupon Mad thank you. Appeal attached and blacked out details. Key evidence is the rejection of appeal to the driver, so they clearly have correct driver details at the time of issuing, but continued to pursue keeper / defendant. 

DVLA contacted and written confirmation obtained to confirm no access request for keeper information whilst under defendants keepership. So my first query is where has the claimant got the keeper / defendant information from? 

Initial defence relies on proving that keeper was not the driver. Counterclaim relies on number of communications since 1. appealing through claimants online process and 2. again providing drivers details when legal action letter received from claimant by post.

Witness statements were going to consist of: driver, driver's passenger (friend), and keeper.

Also to confirm, yes fee paid for counterclaim. It's really not about the money, it's the immorality.

Coupon-mad

WS from the keeper is all I would do.  There are a couple of counterclaims floating around the forum.

Search the forum for DPA breach Google Harrison Link Financial and you might find a recent example WS that supports such a counterclaim.

Always change forum searches to show NEWEST.

This might help:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6296995/county-court-claim-qdr-solicitors-met-parking/p11