Delayed issue of PCN

johnedit

I formally challenged a PCN issued by VCS as it was received (by post) almost 4 months after the Contravention Date and the PCN Issue Date.
I pointed out that the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, SCHEDULE 4 stated the following:-
==========================
SCHEDULE 4
Recovery of unpaid parking charges
Paragraph 9
Sub-Paragraph (4)The notice must be given by—
(a)handing it to the keeper, or leaving it at a current address for service for the keeper, within the relevant period; or
(b)sending it by post to a current address for service for the keeper so that it is delivered to that address within the relevant period.
Sub-Paragraph (5)The relevant period for the purposes of sub-paragraph (4) is the period of 14 days beginning with the day after that on which the specified period of parking ended
==============

However, I have received the following letter which appears to simply ignore the 14 day delivery stipulation and merely reiterates their opinion that the PCN is still valid.-
WHAT DO YOU ADVISE?

===================

We refer to your appeal in respect of the above Charge Notice (CN) received on 23/01/2020.
Having considered the points you have raised and reviewed our records, we are unable to accept your appeal. Our main reason(s) for this decision are as follows:
In your appeal it is unclear who the driver was when your vehicle was seen to be stopped on the access road.
It is important we highlight that we will continue to pursue this matter on the reasonable assumption that you were the driver of the vehicle on the date in question until information/evidence to the contrary is provided.
A review of our CCTV evidence has confirmed that on the date in question, your vehicle stopped to drop off a passenger in the Fuel Station where restrictions apply.
As members of the International Parking Community's (IPC) Accredited Operator Scheme, it is necessary for us to evidence to the IPC that we have relevant authority to undertake parking management at the site concerned and that our signs at that location are compliant in setting out the relevant terms and conditions of use. We will only answer pertinent points at this stage.
Please be advised that by law Vehicle Control Services have 6 years to pursue the Charge Notice (from the date of contravention).
Please be advised that the registered keeper details can be obtained as per IPC within 6 months of a contravention.
There is an abundance of signs within the Fuel Station, which are located throughout the site, those signs are of such a size that they can be easily read from a moving vehicle. The signs give clear notice to drivers that they should not stop and warn of the consequences if they do. In this case, the driver would have driven past a number of those signs and therefore had sufficient notice to decide whether or not to comply with the restrictions in place.
We have fully reviewed this case and we are satisfied that the Charge Notice was correctly issued. We are unable to accept the mitigating circumstances raised in your representations, your appeal is therefore rejected and the Charge will stand; photographic evidence which supports this can be viewed at myparkingcharge
What you should do next - Either:
1. Pay the Charge Notice (CN):
In order to settle the Charge, the payment of £60 to reach us by 14/02/2020 or £100
to reach us by 28/02/2020 must be made. Failure to pay this charge within the stated times, may result in Debt Recovery Action being taken and further costs up to an additional £60 being incurred. Payments can be made online at myparkingcharge by following the links for "Pay Now", or over the phone by calling 0845 226 9138 by using a valid Credit or Debit Card.
OR:
2. Appeal to the Independent Appeals Services (IAS):
If you believe this decision is incorrect, you are entitled to appeal to the IAS. In order to appeal, the IAS will need the following information (which is also contained in the subject header of this correspondence).
Notice Serial No:
VCS#######
Appeals must be submitted to the IAS within 21 days of the date of this correspondence. Please visit the ias. It is important you note that if you do make an appeal to the IAS, the reduced charge offered above will no longer apply. You should also be aware that if a payment is made prior to an appeal being made to, or adjudicated by, the IAS
AND
this is accepted as Full and Final settlement against the CN, the appeal will automatically be dismissed and the matter will be deemed closed. Should you appeal to the IAS and it is unsuccessful, the full amount outstanding (£100) will become payable within 14 days of the date the IAS decision is notified to you. Failure to pay this sum in the 14 day period will result in debt recovery costs of £60.00 being added to the outstanding balance.
It is important we also highlight that no further appeals will be accepted at this office
; any such appeal must be made to the IAS.
Please also note that further costs may be incurred should it be necessary for us to subsequently recover any outstanding charge using further debt recovery and/or court action.

KeithP

That part of POFA allows the PPC to transfer the drivers liability to the keeper if they follow certain rules.

As they have not followed those rules, the keeper cannot be held liable.

In other words, only the driver is liable and if they don't know who the driver is they may have difficulties.

None of that will stop VCS pursuing you, the keeper, on the assumption that you were the driver, or just to hound you to pay up.


You might want to remove that unique VCS serial number from your post.
The parking companies trawl this forum just waiting for people to trip themselves up and that uniquely identifies you.

Coupon-mad

The NEWBIES thread 1st post does state that PPCs do not have to use the POFA, and VCS do not get the wording or deadlines right, so they have to pursue the driver, which is why they said this:

It is important we highlight that we will continue to pursue this matter on the reasonable assumption that you were the driver of the vehicle on the date in question until information/evidence to the contrary is provided.

You already know from the NEWBIES thread not to appeal to the IAS as there is no second stage appeal in reality.

And you know from all the thread here not to pay, and not to ask what the 'next step' is (SPARE US PLEASE!!) because there isn't one, until you win at your local county court. Great fun, exhilarating and an interesting life experience - and you can claim back your costs when you beat the scam.

No-one pays these. No-one tries IAS.

Oh, and they can't 'assume the keeper was the driver' in law, either!

johnedit

Many thanks to KeithP and Coupon-mad for your contributions - much appreciated.



My initial thought was that they had missed the stipulated 14-day period (by a mile) delivering the PCN to the Keeper (not the Driver) and that this initself would make the PCN invalid - but their response appears to ignore this and chime on that the Parking Violation is valid.


I guess your advice would be to wait for the County Court process - which I am happy to do if you consider they have nullified the PCN in delivering it by Post to the Keeper's address almost 4 months after the Contravention Date?

Fruitcake

Nothing makes a PCN invalid or nullified unless a judge says so.

Once you have made the initial appeal there is nothing else you can do except make complaints and wait and see what the scammers do next.

It's a huge machine, a monster that just keeps rolling over with no real way of stopping it.

The scammers lie and cheat and bluster in the hope that they will eventually grind you down.

All you can do is keep throwing obstacles in front of them until they either give up, which is rare, or you win in court.

Stay strong and keep following the advice on here.

What happened when you complained to the landowner?

Have you complained to your MP yet about this unregulated scam.

Coupon-mad

but their response appears to ignore this and chime on that the Parking Violation is valid.

Because as I explained, they can choose not to use the POFA...this is nothing new.

There is no fine and no parking violation and no keeper liability.

I guess your advice would be to wait for the County Court process - which I am happy to do if you consider they have nullified the PCN in delivering it by Post to the Keeper's address almost 4 months after the Contravention Date?

The PCN is not nullified or void. But easy to beat by a keeper who is not liable. The biggest shame is there is no appeal to try, it is a kangaroo court.

johnedit

Hi, Fruitcake - Thanks for your response. Even though VCS say 'no further appeals will be accepted at this office', you said 'nothing else you can do except make complaints' - are you suggesting that I let them know that I am considering appealing at County Court for violation of the POFA?


Hi, Coupon-mad - your input is appreciated. When you say 'easy to beat by a keeper who is not liable' are you just refering to a Keeper who was not the Driver? As they have sent me the PCN as the Keeper (on the assumption that I was the Driver), has the liabilty been effectively passsed to the Keeper and whether I was or was not the Driver is immaterial?

Fruitcake

johnedit wrote: »

Hi, Fruitcake - Thanks for your response. Even though VCS say 'no further appeals will be accepted at this office', you said 'nothing else you can do except make complaints' - are you suggesting that I let them know that I am considering appealing at County Court for violation of the POFA?

You can't appeal to the county court. You could issue your own claim if you believe you have grounds, or you wait for them to issue a claim against you where you will defend it as keeper and non PoFA complaint NTK.

johnedit wrote: »

Hi, Coupon-mad - your input is appreciated. When you say 'easy to beat by a keeper who is not liable' are you just refering to a Keeper who was not the Driver? As they have sent me the PCN as the Keeper (on the assumption that I was the Driver), has the liabilty been effectively passsed to the Keeper and whether I was or was not the Driver is immaterial?

You defend it as keeper. You do not tell them who WAS driving. You DO tell them if you were NOT driving. Do you see the difference?

Liability cannot pass to the keeper unless the strict requirements of the PoFA have been met, which in your case they have not.
In your case the driver and only the driver is liable, but the scammers don't know who that is. It is unreasonable to say it is reasonable to assume the keeper was the driver, and there is no law that can compel the keeper to say who was driving.

It helps if more than one person has access to your car, either as another named driver or on their own insurance policy.

So, spouse, other family member, friends, local garage, etcetera. Anyone who is allowed to drive you car with your permission.

johnedit

Thanks, Fruitcake.

As VCS have sent the PCN to me as the Keeper on the assumption I was the Driver it seems obvious that this is best progressed (however this is) by me as 'the keeper' - irrespective of whether or not I was the Driver. And, as you say 'wait fot them to issue a claim against you where you will defend it as keeper and non PoFA complaint NTK'.
Cheers to all contributors.

Coupon-mad

Yes of course, as always. As per all the advice already here. Nothing new.

johnedit

Hi, All. Just an update – I have today received a ‘Letter Before Claim’ from ELMS Legal. As mentioned before, the PCN/NTK was sent 4 months after the Contravention Date and the PCN Issue Date (18/9/19). Do I respond to ELMS sating that I have previously advised VCS Ltd that I consider that the PCN/NTK was served in contravention the strict requirements of the PoFA – in the hope they cease legal proceedings – or just wait for them to take matters to the next stage?