Warning To All Sky Customers

budicca

granted I could have misheard £8 for 8p (I will know when I look at my phone bill), but my opinion of this as sharp practice still holds.

any other useful responses please?

stugib

budicca wrote: »

2) after options button pushing ad infinitum, I was put on hold for c. 8 minutes
3) when answered, I stated my request to opt out clearly and was asked to hold again whilst my request was processed.
4) after 2-3 minutes on hold, I was informed it would be done.

I couldn't get through last night - well I could but it cut me off after telling me all the different ways I could manage my account through the red button or website for 90 seconds. Got through immediately at 8am this morning and it was changed immediately, no problem. Pity, I was ready for a rant

IIRC it was option 5, then option 5 to get through to 'any other customer service enquiries'.

budicca wrote: »

YES, FOLKS - I REPEAT - £8 PER MINUTE

Don't panic, you definitely misheard

budicca wrote: »

The Sky.com website has no links for 'opt-out', complaints or cancelling Sky subscription.

I'd imagine Sky's general rule is that anything that has the potential for losing them money will go through the phoneline so they can try and convince you to keep your package/subscribing/opted in etc. It's not very consumer-friendly, but that's business.

budicca wrote: »

anyone else up for class action or small claims court?

AFAICS there's never been a class action lawsuit in the UK, it's an American disease, and the only references seem to be lawyers rubbing their hands with glee at the prospect of all those fees should EU precedent allow them to start one. Even then it seems to be around product defect liability cases, not things like this.

Personally, in my understanding opting people in by default contravenes EU regs on marketing (I thought it was referred to as 'inertia marketing' but can't references to what I read now). But I can't imagine their lawyers have let it past if they didn't think they could work around those rules.

There's no redress for claiming anything I can see (now you understand it wasn't £8/minute ) but the Information Commissioner was in charge of enforcing those regulations (again, I read this a couple of years ago so I'm rusty).

budicca

thanks stugib and others - perhaps Sky need a 'panic button option' if you have misheard 'eight pounds' for 'eight pence'!

I'm still p*ss*d off with them though :mad:

blaise802001

I noticed this too. I told DH that really you should have to phone the number to opt IN not opt OUT. I also suggested to him that this could just be another money making scam from them as if anyone has ever rung this number you will know that you are on hold for approx 30-40 mins. :mad:

MrsBartolozzi

Hi, thanks for this Soreneck!

I just phoned them on the 01 number posted earlier (free for me as inclusive ) and got through to a nice woman who couldn't understand what I was talking about. She was adamant that Sky would never do that - selling our info and it did take me a few goes to make her aware I wanted her to opt me out. After putting me on hold and consulting with a superviser the surprised woman came back saying that I was the first person to phone about this, and that she had heard nothing about this change - neither as an employee nor as a customer (she doesn't read the mag either! lol). In a short time she had ticked all the boxes in my file so I am not subjected to Sky's latest sneaky game.
Seems that this change to terms and conditions is even more hush-hush than we first thought if the staff don't even know!

MrsB.

Soreneck

Thanks everyone for all your responses I suppose it must be legal but it’s something that definitely needs tightening up on as it is obviously being abused by companies like Sky and seems to be somewhere in the small print of nearly every contract these days including many internet sites when you order or sign up for something.
The law definitely needs to be changed to protect consumers from this sneaky unwanted invasion of privacy and surely it increases the potential for your information to fall into the wrong hands, no wonder fraud and identity theft is on the increase. Unscrupulous individuals can find out a lot about you with just your name and date of birth.
I might be wrong but I get the impression that even if you originally opted out of allowing them to sell your personal information to whoever they please when you signed your contract, they can by issuing these ‘change in conditions’ notices put the onus on you to opt out, effectively giving them permission to use your information if you don’t contact them. As discussed earlier the number they give nets them 8p a minute and you are likely to be held in a queue for anything up to 20 minutes.
May I suggest to stop them gaining any advantage whatsoever from this that you all use this number that gets you directly through to a customer advisor at the national rate 01506 421813

stugib

Ok I've found the document I looked at a couple of years ago now, and I'm even more convinced Sky will fall foul of the Information Commissioner if/when reported, but IANAL! I also haven't looked at the original contract T&Cs or can for that matter remember what boxes I ticked when I became a customer 7 years ago!


This is from:
http://www.ico.gov.uk/upload/documents/library/privacy_and_electronic/practical_application/electronic_communications_guidance_part_1_v2.pdf
Which is the UK's interpretation of the PRIVACY AND ELECTRONIC COMMUNICATIONS (EC DIRECTIVE) REGULATIONS 2003 relating to Direct Marketing, which includes any form of marketing communication whether it be phone or email or SMS.


Pertinent points copied from the document, hopefully I've not misrepresented anything by not quoting the entire passages but feel free to read them for yourself from the PDF link:

Do these Regulations apply to all marketing?
They apply to the sending of direct marketing messages by electronic means such as by telephone, fax, email, text message and picture (including video) message and by use of an automated calling system.

What is the definition of direct marketing?
Section 11 of the Data Protection Act 1998 (“DPA”) refers to direct marketing as “the communication (by whatever means) of any advertising or marketing material which is directed to particular individuals”.

What is the difference between a “solicited marketing message” and an “unsolicited marketing message that you consent to receiving”?
Put simply, a “solicited message” is one that you have actively invited. An “unsolicited marketing message that you consent to receiving” is one that you have not specifically invited but you have positively indicated that you do not mind receiving it. This is not the same as failing to object to receiving a message when you are given the opportunity to object.

Thus, if you call a travel agency and ask them to look into the cost of flights to Prague at New Year, you are soliciting a call back from that travel agency with a range of quotes for that trip. The travel agency could make further marketing calls to you about other flights to other destinations at a later date which they think might interest you. These would be unsolicited calls. For good practice, the travel agency should ask you first whether you agree to receive such calls from them.

Does consent mean ticking a box?
It is true that you need to have a positive indication of consent under these Regulations but it is not true that this must be obtained by means of ticking a box.

In our view, therefore, there must be some form of communication whereby the individual knowingly indicates consent. This may involve clicking an icon, sending an email or subscribing to a service. The crucial consideration is that the individual must fully understand that by the action in question they will be signifying consent.

I’m confused about the terms “opt-in” and “opt-out”. What do they mean?
We are concerned that the terms “opt-in” and “opt-out” can be misunderstood. They are commonly taken to refer to the use of tick-boxes. In this context, “opt-in” refers to a box that you tick to indicate agreement and “opt-out” refers to a box that you tick to indicate objection. Marketers have traditionally favoured the latter, i.e., where the default (an unticked “opt-out” box) indicates a failure to register an objection. The fact that someone has had an opportunity to object which they have not taken only means that they have not objected. It does not mean that they have consented.

There is something called a 'soft opt-in' but AFAICS this only applies to email marketing and can only be for products and services directly related to what you signed up for (so no British Gas for a TV product).

So my laymans opinion it seems pretty clear that you have to positively opt-in after being explained individually what those choices mean. Putting an insert in a magazine asking you to positively opt-out would seem to fail on both of those counts.

blaise802001

Soreneck wrote: »

Thanks everyone for all your responses I suppose it must be legal but it’s something that definitely needs tightening up on as it is obviously being abused by companies like Sky and seems to be somewhere in the small print of nearly every contract these days including many internet sites when you order or sign up for something.
The law definitely needs to be changed to protect consumers from this sneaky unwanted invasion of privacy and surely it increases the potential for your information to fall into the wrong hands, no wonder fraud and identity theft is on the increase. Unscrupulous individuals can find out a lot about you with just your name and date of birth.
I might be wrong but I get the impression that even if you originally opted out of allowing them to sell your personal information to whoever they please when you signed your contract, they can by issuing these ‘change in conditions’ notices put the onus on you to opt out, effectively giving them permission to use your information if you don’t contact them. Has discussed earlier the number they give nets them 8p a minute and you are likely to be held in a queue for anything up to 20 minutes.
May I suggest to stop them gaining any advantage whatsoever from this that you all use this number that gets you directly throuhg to a customer advisor at the national rate 01506 421813

I just called this number, it actually puts you through to the tech team. I actually spoke to a lovely guy who went to put me through to CS but there was a queue there so said he would update the details for me. When he looked he said I was already opted out?? But would double check it all for me. I told him that with this new flyer that had come out that I wasn't sure. He said if you opted out in your original contract then that would still stand?! Don't know if he was right or not, but made sure my information wouldn't be passed on.

Thanks for the number

deanos

I have found my contract and as i thought it bascially says the same about using your details etc on page 3 , not sure what the fuss is about

maryotuam

Thanks for the warning. I just rang using the number you gave me and opted out. I've worked very hard to stop my name getting on junk mailing lists so I'm really annoyed that they are being so sneaky! The mag always goes straight in the bin.