Problems with Utility Point?

7Phil

Anyone noticed the recent influx of bad reviews on Trustpilot about Utility Point customers not being repaid excess credit and former customers not being refunded credit on final bill?

I am one of them and seems I am not alone.
Think this is a blip on the radar or a seriously ominous sign?

I completely lost trust in Utility Point over their antics months ago and now having left I've waited 2 months for a final refund and no end in sight. Support staff are not cooperative, absolve themselves of responsibility and refuse to be drawn into giving any further assistance.

Swipe

This nonsense has been going on for few months now. I just think they are under staffed rather than in trouble.

UnclaimedEnergy

They have a £1.28m bill from 21st November which they still haven't paid for the capacity market.

Their pricing strategy is to be 0.12% cheaper than the next tariff in each region, which is ridiculously short sighted. This ends up with them being priced considerably below cost of sales.

Their current fixed tariffs also have a massive upfront payment compared to the rest of the contract, which other companies (Eversmart) have done in the past when in trouble and needing to pay bills.

When suppliers do a DD with 6 expensive months and 6 cheap months, this is to cover winter costs... however Utility Points higher payments go from February - June instead.

Why do you think their directors have set up Neon Reef?

7Phil

Swipe wrote: »

This nonsense has been going on for few months now. I just think they are under staffed rather than in trouble.

Thanks, that causes me to be more optimistic.
While I do urgently need the money back I can live without it if I knew what was going on with it all.

Neon Reef looks to be aimed at the Green Energy sector and UP is aimed at the budget+rewards sector. I'm not reading in to that so much as seems they are just covering wider markets.

UnclaimedEnergy

Lets just ignore a 2 month unpaid £1.2m bill then...

Holding onto £300+ credit of multiple customers isn't down to a lack of staffing, a customers account shouldn't realistically be in that much credit in January/February as you build it up in the summer to then use in the Winter.

Of course I might be wrong... However a company can't price £200 below cost forever.

To get more staff in they also need money to pay them.

7Phil

bristolleedsfan wrote: »

I just got a quote, cheaper than U.P albeit currently appears to be Electricity only

Unit Rate 12.478p per kWh Standing Charge 12.107p per day

I do agree what has been said UP problem appears to be lack of staffing, during Summer I requested credit refund, was not done within stated 28 days, I complained, credit was refunded within 24 hours plus £15.00 compensation added to account.

Mind if I ask what route you complained? Verbal, web-form or letter in the mail?
I have not lodged an actual complaint having done everything but, though I have drafted a letter. I am reluctant to send it in case it means they slap on an extra 8 weeks of processing time.

bristolleedsfan

7Phil wrote: »

Mind if I ask what route you complained? Verbal, web-form or letter in the mail?
I have not lodged an actual complaint having done everything but, though I have drafted a letter. I am reluctant to send it in case it means they slap on an extra 8 weeks of processing time.

By email, Subject .....Complaint that ........

Had no reply re-sent/forwarded on email after 7 days to which I had reply following day -


On ‎Wednesday‎, ‎3‎ ‎July‎ ‎2019‎ ‎14‎:‎09‎:‎03‎ ‎BST, Utility Point Help <help@utilitypoint.co.uk> wrote:

Good afternoon,

Thank you for your email, I apologise for our delayed response

I am sorry to hear that you did not receive your credit refund in the time frame we advised.

We have spoken to our Accounts Department who will ensure that £180.00 is in your account by the end of today.

I have spoken to our Complaints Team who can offer a gesture of goodwill of £15.00 credit onto the account.

Please confirm if you are happy with this.

7Phil

!!! TrustPilot has now been jacked up with a pile of suspicious positive reviews !!!

UnclaimedEnergy wrote: »

Lets just ignore a 2 month unpaid £1.2m bill then...

Holding onto £300+ credit of multiple customers isn't down to a lack of staffing, a customers account shouldn't realistically be in that much credit in January/February as you build it up in the summer to then use in the Winter.

I've been thinking a lot about this lately, plus with what you say here, I'm starting to believe that something might be very badly wrong with Utility Point.

I think this actually could be a scam. The below is a combination of my personal experiences that align consistently with others' reviews - interpreted with my own non-factual speculation:

• Attract people in with offers of fast-cash and have a pyramid-scheme style incentive (the £25 bonus is actually fake money - see below)
• Take first DD payment before any energy is consumed
• Fudge first bill with lower "industry provided" readings to make people pay for fake energy
• Jack up monthly DD to increase incoming cash - customer accounts swell with credit (this is actually fake credit, the real money having gone elsewhere, some of which used pay refunds for those leaving early enough)
• Any customers with problems or noticing the above: Cheerfully convince them everything is OK; delayed or ignored responses; frustrate processes; deflect; blame-shift; if all of that fails add more fake credit in to the account to make people happy
• Last resort: pay out absolute minimum cash refunds and only if people really fight for it
• People will happily keep paying money in because they are under an illusion: They receive cheap energy (from the grid) and their account balance is gradually growing. If it's reducing then when it ever gets near zero a higher DD figure will be set
• People who want to switch away can only do so if their account is in credit, then possible further meter read fudging to charge for more fake energy (I did not experienced this line myself so cannot verify)
• Failure to cancel DDs for customers, receiving further money into account credit (I did not experience this personally like others have but I manually cancelled my DD when I left)

Sounds like classic Ponzi scam material when I put things in those words.

• Why the £25 bonus is fake money: As long as the account is in credit greater than the reward value then the reward is never consumed. When people leave, the reward vanishes: "Upon termination of the Program or any portion thereof for any reason, or upon cancellation of a User's Utility Point account for any reason, any Rewards accumulated by the User are forfeited."
  - (23.2.18 - Utility Point Terms and Conditions, ver: 8 August 2019)

Towards the end of a scam of this sort:

• Stop paying any money out altogether and ignore all liabilities
• String the final stage out as long as possible to receive as many cash deposits as possible
• Collapse and vanish: Leave an unpaid capacity market bill and many people with accounts full of fake credit

If the above is true, then it goes to Ofgem to mop it all up

• People would eventually get their credit back as real money or energy from whichever supplier 'of last resort' they get dumped on.
• Former customers (like me), who would be effectively unsecured creditors, may or may not get money back after the new supplier is appointed

In my case:

• I left via a home move, £300 in credit -- this was not built up carelessly. I only ever paid the £50 monthly DD I joined on, except one month of £94 when they jacked up my DD but told me too late to change the first increased payment (I was put back to £50 thereafter)
• Then I failed, like many others, to get a refund of excess credit. Instead monthly DD was reduced to £30 until I left
• My £300 credit accumulated via: Accruing credit from my energy use being lower than my DD; credit added due to the first bill starting on a lower meter reading than my previous supplier closed my account with (and I noticed it); referral bonus credit
• Any energy savings I made became negated by the £70 exit fee (I'm chasing £230, which is 100% fully my money). Though I do accept I have to pay the early exit fee as it was part of the deal I agreed to.

I have no knowledge of Utility Point actually being a scam, but these are big warning bells now that I've put all of these pieces together in my mind.

Swipe

Glad I got out when I did. But I have to add, I did get my credit refunded eventually plus £30 compensation which I really had to fight for.

PennineAcute

7Phil wrote: »

!!! TrustPilot has now been jacked up with a pile of suspicious positive reviews !!!



I've been thinking a lot about this lately, plus with what you say here, I'm starting to believe that something might be very badly wrong with Utility Point.

I think this actually could be a scam. The below is a combination of my personal experiences that align consistently with others' reviews - interpreted with my own non-factual speculation:

• Attract people in with offers of fast-cash and have a pyramid-scheme style incentive (the £25 bonus is actually fake money - see below)
• Take first DD payment before any energy is consumed
• Fudge first bill with lower "industry provided" readings to make people pay for fake energy
• Jack up monthly DD to increase incoming cash - customer accounts swell with credit (this is actually fake credit, the real money having gone elsewhere, some of which used pay refunds for those leaving early enough)
• Any customers with problems or noticing the above: Cheerfully convince them everything is OK; delayed or ignored responses; frustrate processes; deflect; blame-shift; if all of that fails add more fake credit in to the account to make people happy
• Last resort: pay out absolute minimum cash refunds and only if people really fight for it
• People will happily keep paying money in because they are under an illusion: They receive cheap energy (from the grid) and their account balance is gradually growing. If it's reducing then when it ever gets near zero a higher DD figure will be set
• People who want to switch away can only do so if their account is in credit, then possible further meter read fudging to charge for more fake energy (I did not experienced this line myself so cannot verify)
• Failure to cancel DDs for customers, receiving further money into account credit (I did not experience this personally like others have but I manually cancelled my DD when I left)

Sounds like classic Ponzi scam material when I put things in those words.

• Why the £25 bonus is fake money: As long as the account is in credit greater than the reward value then the reward is never consumed. When people leave, the reward vanishes: "Upon termination of the Program or any portion thereof for any reason, or upon cancellation of a User's Utility Point account for any reason, any Rewards accumulated by the User are forfeited."
  - (23.2.18 - Utility Point Terms and Conditions, ver: 8 August 2019)

Towards the end of a scam of this sort:

• Stop paying any money out altogether and ignore all liabilities
• String the final stage out as long as possible to receive as many cash deposits as possible
• Collapse and vanish: Leave an unpaid capacity market bill and many people with accounts full of fake credit

If the above is true, then it goes to Ofgem to mop it all up

• People would eventually get their credit back as real money or energy from whichever supplier 'of last resort' they get dumped on.
• Former customers (like me), who would be effectively unsecured creditors, may or may not get money back after the new supplier is appointed

In my case:

• I left via a home move, £300 in credit -- this was not built up carelessly. I only ever paid the £50 monthly DD I joined on, except one month of £94 when they jacked up my DD but told me too late to change the first increased payment (I was put back to £50 thereafter)
• Then I failed, like many others, to get a refund of excess credit. Instead monthly DD was reduced to £30 until I left
• My £300 credit accumulated via: Accruing credit from my energy use being lower than my DD; credit added due to the first bill starting on a lower meter reading than my previous supplier closed my account with (and I noticed it); referral bonus credit
• Any energy savings I made became negated by the £70 exit fee (I'm chasing £230, which is 100% fully my money). Though I do accept I have to pay the early exit fee as it was part of the deal I agreed to.

I have no knowledge of Utility Point actually being a scam, but these are big warning bells now that I've put all of these pieces together in my mind.

Cannot say about now, but when I was last with UP, I raked in bonus money - aound £2500. This paid for a lovely no expense spared holiday and also covered the vets fees when my dog became very ill. I even sent UP a postcard to say thank you

7Phil

PennineAcute wrote: »

Cannot say about now, but when I was last with UP, I raked in bonus money - aound £2500. This paid for a lovely no expense spared holiday and also covered the vets fees when my dog became very ill. I even sent UP a postcard to say thank you

Well!! You probably weren't a customer.