Armtrac/BWlegal

charlieb0805

I have had a good look over your site since receiving a parking fine from Armtrac in August last year. Since this time I've read the newbie guides and looked at other similar claims....

Back in August I was having lunch with a friend at Lusty Glaze near Newquay, we had such a great time that parking was the last thing on my mind. Anyway we did overstay and we did get a £100 fine reduced to £60 if I paid before a certain time. Whilst I was pretty irritated I did accept that I'd overstayed and was resigned to the fact I would have to pay the £60. I waited until the 14th day which happened to be on a Sunday and went to pay the fine on their website. Here is where the problems began...search as I might through their site there was no obvious area to pay the fine. No worries I thought I'll call them and pay over the phone. I got a message that the offices were closed and to call back on Monday...no problem I thought.

So, the next day I called the Armtrac office, spoke to the lady and who happily informed me that the payment would be £100. I explained the issues I had with the website over the weekend, she seemed unimpressed and maintained the fine due was £100.

It was at this point I realised that Armtrac had taken the pay button off their website over the weekend and put it back up on the Monday so making it impossible for anyone to make any payments over the weekends.

I calmly said to the woman that I would be happy to pay the £60 charge over the phone then and there but in no way was I willing to pay £100. She point blank refused to accept the £60 and I suggested that we would see each other in court.

So here we are now at the end of January. I've ignored all correspondence so far but I now have a letter of claim from BWLegal. I have requested SAR to Armtrac and from BWlegal (the Armtrac email isn't functioning, as mentioned in previous posts). I have also asked BW to put the case on hold while we sort out the SAR.

My case seems a little different in that I did accept the ticket and did offer to pay the initial £60 so I'm just wondering how this is likely to pan out. Should I restate my initial offer to BWlegal or should I let this proceed to a hearing and lay out my grievance with a CC judge?

I am happy to attend a hearing if needed

Any help or advise would be gratefully recieved.

Coupon-mad

It was at this point I realised that Armtrac had taken the pay button off their website over the weekend and put it back up on the Monday so making it impossible for anyone to make any payments over the weekends.

Typical of these firms.

My case seems a little different in that I did accept the ticket and did offer to pay the initial £60 so I'm just wondering how this is likely to pan out. Should I restate my initial offer to BWlegal

Yes. Re-state it. Head it up WITHOUT PREJUDICE, SAVE AS TO COSTS

or should I let this proceed to a hearing and lay out my grievance with a CC judge?

And yes.

How long was the alleged overstay, do you mean you paid for parking at a machine and got a windscreen PCN because the ticket expired, how long exactly between expiry and the time on the 'PCN'?

Or was it a ANPR postal PCN with photos of your car gong in and out?

charlieb0805

Thanks for the info.
I did buy a ticket at the machine which expired at 14.15 the ticket was issued at 14.30

Coupon-mad

OK so only 15 mins and part of your defence can allege the landowner is likely to have required a 15 or 20 minute grace period anyway, and the Claimant is put to strict proof to the contrary.

And to support that reasonable understanding you can append this to your later WS in your carefully organised 'heap' of evidence:

http://www.newquayvoice.co.uk/news/5/article/3428/

Perfectly reasonable to think a 20 min grace period either side of paid for time is the norm in private car parks in Newquay, given the signs are silent about it.

Castle

charlieb0805 wrote: »

Thanks for the info.
I did buy a ticket at the machine which expired at 14.15 the ticket was issued at 14.30

If they are using ANPR, then there are two different clocks in operation.

charlieb0805

A quick update on this. I submitted a defence that set out the issues with payment I had during the 14 day period and that my initial offer of the £60 payment was still on the table. BW won't accept my defence so I've now got the Small Claims Track form  which is suggesting mediation. Is it worth going through the mediation process ?

Thanks 

Redx

Read the newbies thread , second post , the mediation aspect is explained in there

D_P_Dance

It is not a fine, it is an invoice from an ex-clamper to compensate them for the alleged harm they suffered when you did what you did. We call it a scam. Pay them not a penny unless a judge so orders it.

Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams, so consider complaining to your MP, it can cause the scammer extra costs and work, and has been known to get the charge cancelled.

Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, many of whom are former clampers, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

Hopefully, when life gets back to normal, it will become impossible for those scammers who are left to continue their vile trade, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted

Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.

beamerguy

charlieb0805 said:

A quick update on this. I submitted a defence that set out the issues with payment I had during the 14 day period and that my initial offer of the £60 payment was still on the table. BW won't accept my defence so I've now got the Small Claims Track form  which is suggesting mediation. Is it worth going through the mediation process ?

Thanks 

NO NO to mediation ...... but think about it, if they thought they were on a winner would they really want mediation. ???  

Assume BWLegal have added their normal scam charge of £60 with some dreamed up reason for doing so.   THE FAKE £60 IS THEIR DOWNFALL  and they have now tainted their claim.

You now ask them what is their legal authority to add £60.  They don't but they will come back with nonsensical rubbish which is perfect to show a judge. They now spiral downwards. They know that this will lead to another spanking in court.

ASK THEM, a template letter for you to adapt is available here
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6129744/bwlegal-the-scam/p1?new=1

D_P_Dance

That £60 will be their Achilles heal, they will try not to answer but keep demanding a reply.  You can use any refusal, or spurios reply that their made up Code of practice allows it to your advantage in court. 

charlieb0805

Thanks for the insight. At this stage I am required to complete a small claims Directions questionnaire by the 29th June. I'm wondering what the process is from here, if I send the template  letter above to them does this run alongside the claim ? Do I use this as evidence at the hearing? I'm want to make sure I proceed properly.
Thanks